Would this help balance the Tanks out?

[Rubytoe]

Paladin - Nerf Fight or Flight\\'s physical damage buff to 10% or 15%.

Dark Knight - Give Dark Dance, and Dark Arts boosts the parry rate up to 40%. Instead of giving evasion.

Thoughts?

[347SPECTRE]

Shh, PLDs would throw a fit if you said to nerf them. It would be best to bring DRK up to the level of the other 2 rather than drag one, the other or both down. I do like the idea of giving DRK Dark Dance Back though, would help shore up our defensive kit, which is one of the areas we're lacking. Also Dark Dance was always parry there is no evasion, or rather parry IS evasion (kindasortanotreally).

[Reynhart]

Also Dark Dance was always parry there is no evasion, or rather parry IS evasion (kindasortanotreally).

Dark Arts + Dark Dance was evasion, and Parry is not Evasion because Evasion can completely negates damage. And that's probably why we always had very few evasion skills.

[Eliroth-Kaminari]

dont mention PLD nef u will bring whole hell into this thread XD

We know SE think evrything is ok whit DRK untill 4.5 or 4.6 when DRK has become meme class and then they promise rework of balance in 5.0 whit main focus on DRK whit resould DRK being owerbuffed and one of 3 tanks neffed into ground

And circle of dispair will continiue.

it was 2.0 war 3.0 PLD 4.0 DRk i quess 5.0 meme class is war again

[Crater]

Unfortunately, no, I don't think those changes would do much to solve some of the underlying tank balance issues.

First, Paladin damage just isn't really a problem. They do good damage, but they never really burst particularly high, and they're a slave to multiple cooldown timers. The issues with balance re: tank damage are, basically: 1) DRK isn't performing up to scratch - low maximum damage, low average damage, optimization is the hardest among the tanks but the reward for optimizing is a fraction of what you get by optimizing the others, etc, and 2) WAR is being over-rewarded, as per usual, by having both the highest burst damage and the highest total DPS.

Second, Dark Dance was basically a useful cooldown in conjunction with the rest of DRK's 3.x toolkit. Pairing it with Foresight for 'fluff' physical mitigation is gone, using it to proc Reprisal is gone, DADD+DADP was extremely expensive MP-wise even when Blood Price was literally 4x as strong as it is now and DP cost half the MP; now it would basically be nonviable even if it were replaced exactly as-is. And wasting a DA worth of MP on Dark Mind is already generally a losing move, and that's with an actual powerful effect - tacking the same cost on to anything short of a 100% chance to parry would honestly be pretty irrelevant.

[konpachizaraki]

Unfortunately, no, I don't think those changes would do much to solve some of the underlying tank balance issues.
WAR is being over-rewarded, as per usual, by having both the highest burst damage and the highest total DPS.

disagree on WAR being over rewarded for their dps, if anything it's the opposite because their best burst damage only come once every two minutes,can easily get messed up by mechanic and PLD can match WAR DPS without needing to give as much effort.
inner release should be a 1 minute cooldown, or if they decide to keep the 2 minutes cooldown it should at least increase the fell cleave damage significantly on that duration

[Marxam]

2) WAR is being over-rewarded, as per usual, by having both the highest burst damage and the highest total DPS.

That's debatable. While war burst is good its the overall raiddps that counts. As a WAR main, the change to SiO is good however we still have to juggle Infuriate timers and match them perfectly with Berserk and Inner Release to even get a chance at matching or even exceeding pld. PLD just needs to keep goring up and use its off gcds when available and its gg. If there is one thing I would change about DRK is to make TBN six seconds instead of five. I find this to a reasonable change. Other than that SE doesn't see anything wrong with DRK. I mean world first UBcoB had a drk in it.

[Chrono_Rising]

That's debatable. While war burst is good its the overall raiddps that counts. As a WAR main, the change to SiO is good however we still have to juggle Infuriate timers and match them perfectly with Berserk and Inner Release to even get a chance at matching or even exceeding pld. PLD just needs to keep goring up and use its off gcds when available and its gg. If there is one thing I would change about DRK is to make TBN six seconds instead of five. I find this to a reasonable change. Other than that SE doesn't see anything wrong with DRK. I mean world first UBcoB had a drk in it.

The world first may have had a dark in it, but only about 3 confirmed dark knights have cleared compared to 22 Warriors and 25 paladins. World first doesn't mean much as a metric, and most groups seem to be choosing warrior paladin to run and clear. This doesn't seem to strictly be a theoretical argument, strategically people are bringing in a certain composition, and it doesn't appear that most groups are choosing dark knight as part of that strategy. Not shockingly, there doesn't appear to be many of places where a 5.5k shield on one person would save the raid.

I cannot stress this enough, it is too small a sample to draw any conclusions from, but right now dark knight is behind in the numbers game by 20% dps in ultimate. This could be because of playing cautiously paired with an extremely small sample set, but many have pointed out harder content could force more tank stance on dark because its kit is weaker than the other tanks. If that holds up, again really too small a sample to generalize from, that is a way more important metric than which tank was brought in first.

[Crater]

That's debatable. While war burst is good its the overall raiddps that counts.

No. Burst is utility; it has value beyond just contributing to overall DPS, and class balance should reflect that. The class that deals the highest burst damage should never be the class that also deals the highest overall DPS, and this game is going to have severe balance issues until SE realizes that and starts changing class design accordingly. Both Paladin and Dark Knight should be dealing higher overall DPS than Warrior, to balance out the fact that Berserk + Fell Cleave is always going to result in Warrior dealing 30-40%+ more damage during a burst window.

[FallenWings]

No. Burst is utility; it has value beyond just contributing to overall DPS, and class balance should reflect that. The class that deals the highest burst damage should never be the class that also deals the highest overall DPS, and this game is going to have severe balance issues until SE realizes that and starts changing class design accordingly. Both Paladin and Dark Knight should be dealing higher overall DPS than Warrior, to balance out the fact that Berserk + Fell Cleave is always going to result in Warrior dealing 30-40%+ more damage during a burst window.

Burst type damage is always going to be king over stable. But other than phase pushing(which the DPS classes have more influence in than WARs slight edge over the other tanks has), 'balanced' content design is never going to make a burst phase where only WAR can handle it versus a PLD or DRK, both of which are also capable of 'bursting' but agreeably not to the degree of a Berserk/IR window. It's a flavour of damage type for the most part and is of little consequence because its not that big of a gap between the other tanks.

WAR just needs to not have all its eggs in Inner Release. 2 minutes of pool noodle damage for 20 seconds of chainsaw damage is not all that fun.