sorry but your job sucks.....

[chidarake]

with all this talk about different jobs needing and getting buffs and how they are reflected in group content via personal or raid dps I thought I would share my thoughts on the subject and how I personally would like to see SE change things to help balance what people consider the meta for group compositions.

I should add at this point that I consider myself a BLM main and have been playing the job since very early ARR.

However dont take this post as me asking for buffs to the job or complaining about this jobs place in meta because I personally couldnt care as I play with a group of people who all just play what we like. yes this might make things harder for us in progression than need be but we feel its important for the group that people are playing what they want and enjoy to play.

That being said I see the reasons for why people are being vocal about their favourite jobs and the place they fit in the communities position on meta for the harder content.

my propostion may annoy a lot of people and they may not agree with it however I think that it is the simplest and most fair solution that I could come up with.

the propostion:

firstly I would remove all current party buffs in the game in there current form.

what I mean by this is that the buffs like slashing, piecing, blunt, need to be changed from there current distribution to a more fair one.

my solution to this would be assinging a role type a certain type of buff.
in short something like tanks buff healers, healers buff tanks, melee buff ranged, ranged buff casters, casters buff melee.

so instead of slashing, piercing, blunt and so forth it would be healer buff, tank buff, melee buff, ranged buff and caster buff.

by doing this it would make it beneficial to have atleast 1 of each job type in your party. the other 3 spots could be filled how you wanted yet the whole group is benefitting from the buffs. these could replace the current dex, int, str, mnd type buffs if they are
even still a thing as I havnt checked in forever.


secondly:

I would change all the other buffs like chain stratagem, balance, trick attack, battle litany, embolden, brotherhood and so forth.

what I would do with these is put them into the cross role spots so every melee for intance would have access to the other melee buffs and could pick and choose what they wanted to bring.

in a group setting you would spread them out across both melees to make sure you had access to each one in your group. you could do the same with the healer buffs and the caster buffs so each job type had access to the buffs within the role and not just the job.

this way groups could choose who was taking what. if you had a group via duty finder you could just talk it out before the pull and change your skills accordingly.

a special note on ast cards.

I wouldnt change the cards other than balance as they are a part of the job but balance would beed to go in cross role so they would need a replacement skill for that. or even if it was removed it would allow the other support abilities more use freeing up ewer for instance for the astro to use on themsleves more often.


thirdly:

since we would be losing buffs like piercing, slashing, blunt in rotation I would opt to add the dots that we lost with Stormbloods release back into the game. they were only removed to balance out the dps of the community but if they were added onto the normal rotation chains it wouldnt have much effect on the balance like it did when some of them were single button skills that people could skip or forget about.

although personally I liked the single button skills for dungeon runs as I could dot each enemy on the pull for that little bit of extra dps.


just alittle more to read:


all this being said I hear you saying but we dont wnat more cross role skills to choose from as we only have 5 slots.

of course the simple solution there is to add 2 more slots however these arent general purpose slots they are group buff slots and you choose which buffs you want to take via adding them there.

this way if you take a compostion of 2 tanks 2 healers 2 melee 1 ranged 1 caster you would have access to quite the number of different group buffs.

if you choose to add more dps and less tanks or healers youd be sacrifing access to some while being able to extend others due to having another persons jobs buffs.

this way the community has a little flexiblity in what they bring while not excluding the possibilty of disregarding a job because of its lack of raid or group beneifits.

SE would then be free to balance job dps around its playstyle rather than what its bringing to the group in regards of buffs as it would have access to all buffs within its job role.

yes even if these were instigated in game there would still be a meta comp but atleast every job would have a chance of being in it as we would rely on player skill a lot more as a community than well this job has x buff.


one more thing:

SE please do not give BLM a raise skill we dont need it, thats what healers are for.

[Ceallach]

I'm sorry, I really don't think this is a good idea at all. There wouldn't be any real difference between the jobs at all this way.

[Llugen]

There is nothing wrong with class synergy, and I would even say that there is nothing wrong with meta (even perhaps that it's unavoidable), it ONLY becomes an issue when the discrepancy is so great that it cannot be reconciled (See also: physical meta/RIP casters, the tyranny of trick attack, requirement of DRG for BRD+MCH).

One way to "fix" this issue is to do as you said and remove synergy, but that makes for boring gameplay. In my opinion, what should be done instead is more regularly spread buffs so they aren't so exclusive:


-Disembowel is a perfect example: there is NO reason that after all this time BRD/MCH should not be able to apply their own piercing down, in fact it's ridiculous that they can't.

-Buffs like Brotherhood and Embolden should also affect (and be affected by) magic damage, this would help upheave the physical meta.

-Double DPS roles should be "punished" in some small way where it pertains to BRD+MCH. Perhaps Hypercharge and Battle Voice cannot be used concurrently somehow, or some other efficiency loss. This would leave the proper comp to be one "main" melee (SAM or MNK) one "auxiliary" melee (DRG or NIN) one ranged and one caster for 8 man content.

-On the same note as the above bullet, ALL jobs should have SOME kind of raid-wide utility buff including SAM and BLM, even if it's just one three minute cooldown like Battle Litany. This would mean that there is no PURELY "selfish" DPS job even if it's a small gain or "less than" from NIN or BRD. Pure damage classes will always get shunned where party play is concerned because parties want TO BE FED, parties don't want TO FEED ONE PLAYER. At least that way it's SOMETHING that can be brought to the table. Perhaps BLM could get a party wide speed buff that cancels Ley Lines and extrapolates it out to the whole party on 180s recast and SAM could get some kind of speed buff as well. I'd also propose perhaps Enochian giving +2% speed while it's up much like BRD gives +2% crit with songs while they're up.

-Radiant Shield and Contagion should be in the same pet slot and be consolidated into just damage up instead of separated into physical and magical damage


Feel free to help brainstorm more solutions like this.

[chidarake]

I'm sorry, I really don't think this is a good idea at all. There wouldn't be any real difference between the jobs at all this way.

this is not true, yes they would share buffs but there play styles would still be very much intact.

pressing a buff button does not distinguish a job from any other job.

There is nothing wrong with class synergy, snip snip.

the reason i put forward a proposal is to get people thinking of solutions to help SE out not to just constantly whine for buffs.

some of your points are very valid and should be addressed by SE but in the case of jobs applying there own damage buff like piercing it would just make it pointless and they could just remove them in favour of the dots we lost.

if they were changed to other jobs roles applying the buffs it would help balance out group composition to role types not to jobs themselves, also if a group wanted they could still double dip into any job type depending on what people wanted to play.

I'm not saying what i propose is the best solution but atleast like so many other threads right now its not saying we should all just be given buffs to make our jobs desirable.

[ULoki]

pressing a buff button does not distinguish a job from any other job.

It does now.

[chidarake]

it shouldn't. yes something like hallowed ground or eye of the dragon is identity building but a flat damage buff for the whole party that has any generic name is not.

the way a job plays and its lore is what builds identity.

[Llugen]

I don't mean to go off on you in particular about this, but man y'all need some more imagination when it comes to "job identity"/lore, seriously.

"Raise is not part of a BLM's identity"- why the $@%& not?! Go back and re-read my suggestion to make it void magic rather that white magic or arcane or whatever. Could even make it so the usage of it gives you back MP or like a tether to the raised person from the BLM that increases the BLM's damage as long as the tether person is in range for a duration and if he leaves the range then he dies again. Or if you gave it the ability even to raise ITSELF, that would be a fit.

Enochian could very easily "radiate" out power/speed just like bard songs are "within earshot"

Samurai could give some kind of "focus" (or insert weeb name here) for the party to use. Besides, what makes "battle litany" specifically dragoon? Nothing. Dragon Sight and Hallowed ground, certainly, but where's the creative thinking?!

LITERALLY JUST ABOUT ANYTHING can fit into "identity" as long as it is well-implemented and well-explained as far as lore is concerned. You bunch are just apparently too unimaginative/short-sighted to realize that.

/endrant

[zuzu-bq]

I think the only fair way the game can punish double ranged is by making them have lower overall damage since their utilities are too strong. All of the offensive and defensive ones are just too good. The game at the moment is on the complete opposite situation, and Disembowel is mostly the one to blame. The game is meant to let your DPS compotision be 1 of each and a 4th wild card anyways (this is how the High-End Duty Frinder matches parties after all), the convention of 2 melee and 2 ranged just usually results better party dps and ease positioning and is widely spread and accepted.

[chidarake]

i dont think people should have a punishment to having two ranged over a caster but obviously having two mobile dps and two melee dps helps tremendously with mechanics the fact they also help buff each other and have the added utility is icing on the cake that other jobs can not compete against.

id say the problem is less with disembowel and more the fact the supposed support jobs have been buffed to none support levels. of course it would help if other jobs had piercing as that might make people look at mnk or sam to fill that spot but as others have said in the their threads these kind of damage buffs are what help build meta comps.

if its SE intent to have one group be the dominant force in the game so be it but if they want everyone to have a fair chance at participating in content on their preferred job these buffs need to be addressed in some way.

I don't mean to go off on you in particular about this, but man y'all need some more imagination when it comes to "job identity"/lore, seriously.

your right nearly any skill or buff can be written to be applied to another job but since SE chose to reduce the amount of skills in the game with stormblood i think most people are trying to work within that constraint of not adding more to come up with ideas on how to help solve the problem.

[DRKoftheAzure]

all this being said I hear you saying but we dont wnat more cross role skills to choose from as we only have 5 slots.

I actually want more role actions to choose from so that there is ACTUALLY A CHOICE FOR ALL ROLES.

it shouldn't. yes something like hallowed ground or eye of the dragon is identity building but a flat damage buff for the whole party that has any generic name is not.

the way a job plays and its lore is what builds identity.

DRKs Souleater and Dark Arts everything.... that is the current joke for DRK right now...