"Casual" content thoughts

[NolLacnala]

Did you not browse the forums either here or on reddit about royal menagerie? Do you ever read the FFXIV reddit? They say stuff like this all the time.

Plebbit says a lot of things because 99% of them are armchair raiders.

Friendly reminder that Gordias sucked because Yoshi made the mistake of listening to Reddit.

[Sylvina]

Plebbit says a lot of things because 99% of them are armchair raiders.

Friendly reminder that Gordias sucked because Yoshi made the mistake of listening to Reddit.

Be careful some people will even argue gordias was the best. I met one of these moon touched individuals once.

[Moomba33]

I think it's true that what's easy for one person is hard for another. XIV may not be hard compared to a lot of games but there can still be people who struggle to keep track of everything about their job and the fight at the same time.

But at the same time there's a world of difference between performing non-optimally and not trying at all. At least for normal content I find most players are forgiving as long as you are putting forth effect-trying to use your buffs and dots, using your main job mechanic in a way that makes sense even if it isn't perfect, pressing something most of the time instead of just standing around.

If you do have a disability serious enough that you can't keep up with "average" uptime/activity level it's probably best to let your party know or run with friends so you can be accommodated. Your party has no way of knowing if you're inactive due to being half afk or some sort of condition.

I also have to agree that there is such a thing as too easy. The fact that it's possible to go through a synced dungeon without casting a single heal suggests a serious balance issue.

On the subject of Shinryu I feel like it was a good difficulty for a story trial. I've PUG'd it a lot to farm for the card and I don't think I've ever had a group abandon. Most people can get the mechanics down after a few tries.

[Kaethra]

Here's how it currently works.

Solo content: Fates, Beastman Quests, Crafting, Gathering, Hunts, Squad Missions, MSQ, Regular Quest ect. Comprises of 90% of the game. Completed by the lowest tier of player. Believe it or not, this stuff is still quite challenging to some.

PUG group content: 4 mans, trials, group fates, group hunts

Harder PUG content: 24 mans, normal raids

Non* PUG content: Extreme trials

Harder non* PUG content: Savage raids


Five levels of difficulty. Seems like a good spread to me. Most MMORPGs have 3 or 4. But for some reason, everyone wants to change the first 3 levels to have components of the last two. Healers need to Heal! Tanks need to Tank! Yeah.. they do in some of those stages. In the later ones they need to do everything, as does the DPS in some cases. That's why they're harder content. They're less forgiving than the PUG content.

I think what SE should do is add roulette for them. Let people get kicked into the dirt when they try to do them. They'll whine and cry about the difficulty, but they'll learn that needing tanks and healers doing their jobs more is.. tough. Tougher than they are willing to accept.

Read that list people. If you think the content you are doing is too easy, feel free to walk it up a stage. Stop with the veiled attempt to bring that stage down to your comfort level.

[Sylvina]

understand that a lot of these people can't.

I don't agree that people CANT get good unless they literally have a handicap which prevents them from doing so (like you did mention). However if someone doesn't WANT to get good, and they are good ENOUGH for the content they are already running, that is perfectly ok. it's only bad for someone to not git gud when their not gitting gud is hurting others.

and of course if you have a handicap, it's not your fault.

The mechanics in Royal Menagerie were equally “a joke”. They were not that difficult to execute; they only required the person to be paying attention. If people were having issues, others that knew would explain if they were given the opportunity to.

All individual mechanics are a joke when someone pays attention to them. it's when multiple mechanics happen at the same time that it becomes difficult for a human being to focus on their rotation, the boss, and the mechanics at once, depending how much is going on.

[NocturniaUzuki]

Diverging from the previous argument...

HyoMin, have you ever tried to imagine what it's like for genuine newcomers to MMOs? Or to gaming, for that matter. Most MMO players (heck, even myself) have a distorted view of what people consider "easy" and "hard". For example, I once tried to get my Mom, a 60-year-old with no gaming experience, to play Portal. It was an eye-opening experience. Forget about not grasping the game mechanics. She couldn't even move the character. The entire concept of moving with WASD + mouse was beyond her. You talk about how "easy" these fights are, and how everyone can learn. Well yes, everyone can learn, but it's not that simple. To someone with little experience in the genre, keeping track of so many things at once is daunting. Just take a moment to count how many things you need to keep track of in Rabanastre.

Gaming takes a long time to learn. And even then, people play usually play for fun and aren't interested in tiring, focused learning.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

HyoMin, have you ever tried to imagine what it's like for genuine newcomers to MMOs?

Although not Hyomin, I have to comment since FFXIV is my first MMO. So...

For example, I once tried to get my Mom, a 60-year-old with no gaming experience, to play Portal. It was an eye-opening experience. Forget about not grasping the game mechanics. She couldn't even move the character. The entire concept of moving with WASD + mouse was beyond her. You talk about how "easy" these fights are, and how everyone can learn. Well yes, everyone can learn, but it's not that simple. To someone with little experience in the genre, keeping track of so many things at once is daunting. Just take a moment to count how many things you need to keep track of in Rabanastre.

My mother was once completely clueless with computers. You know how she figured it out? Practice. You act like there exists some silly dichotomy where everything has to be easy lest the casuals fall apart. That's what leveling dungeons, hunts, open world mobs are for and floors 1-50 are for. Expert Roulette is meant for max level players; people who have played upwards of 30+ hours. Making content at max level actually require some effort is not the same as making Brayflux normal akin to Weeping City.

[HyoMinPark]

Diverging from the previous argument...

HyoMin, have you ever tried to imagine what it's like for genuine newcomers to MMOs? Or to gaming, for that matter. Most MMO players (heck, even myself) have a distorted view of what people consider "easy" and "hard". For example, I once tried to get my Mom, a 60-year-old with no gaming experience, to play Portal. It was an eye-opening experience. Forget about not grasping the game mechanics. She couldn't even move the character. The entire concept of moving with WASD + mouse was beyond her. You talk about how "easy" these fights are, and how everyone can learn. Well yes, everyone can learn, but it's not that simple. To someone with little experience in the genre, keeping track of so many things at once is daunting. Just take a moment to count how many things you need to keep track of in Rabanastre.

Gaming takes a long time to learn. And even then, people play usually play for fun and aren't interested in tiring, focused learning.

Since we’re apparently asking about my MMO experience: FFXIV is my second MMO; my first was a F2P Korean MMO that was completely different from this game. I am not a heavy gamer—at most I have played maybe 10 different gaming titles (primarily Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy titles; I suppose you can also throw in the old Pokémon RPG games in there as well). So yes, I do remember what it was like starting out. I also make that known each time I help a sprout, and each time I argue against players being outright toxic to new and learning individuals.

Regardless of my own personal experiences, and regardless of the fact that I can and do empathize with players, I still do not find it acceptable behavior, nor do I understand the behavior, for some to not try to do the best that they can do. We cannot all sit here and assume that the idle healer or the slow-pulling tank or the not-AOEing DPS are individuals with disabilities that are unable to “keep up” because of that (quite frankly, I detest assuming such a thing of people, because it comes off to me as incredibly insulting).

Yes, gaming takes a long time to learn. Yes, it can be particularly challenging to some, who may not be hardcore gamers of countless, various titles. So that is why you practice and practice and keep trying. Especially if you desire to get better. Just like you would at anything else.

With all due respect, I find that you just keep making excuses for people, and not really much else.
I also do not see how “paying attention to mechanics” is a “tiring, focused learning.”

[Kaethra]

Diverging from the previous argument...

HyoMin, have you ever tried to imagine what it's like for genuine newcomers to MMOs? Or to gaming, for that matter. Most MMO players (heck, even myself) have a distorted view of what people consider "easy" and "hard".

Why did you choose portal instead of Dark Souls, the new Doom, or Planetside 2?

That's a rhetorical question.

A game cannot cater to everyone, a game that tries to do this is boring to all. You select a baseline difficulty and go from there. I have friends from Everquest, keyboard turners and ability clickers who would NOT be able to do the solo Duties in class/job or main scenario quests. I veer them away from FFXIV due to this. They would not, and COULD not ever enjoy the majority of the game due to their limitations.

So when forum posters call something easy that your mother and my friends would find super hardcore. They're right. It is easy, for the baseline that has been set. Some people aren't meant to get past the first goomba in World 1-1. Some people can do the solo duties and find them challenging, making some of the trials and extremes out of their reach. It happens. you simply do as much content as you are capable of.

As I said on the second page, there is varying levels of content. If one is too easy, go to the next one. If it gets to hard, work on it or go one stage back. This isn't meant to be condescending. Its just a fact. There is some content some people aren't meant to be doing. But fortunately for them, the content is in a pyramid. The easiest content makes up the majority and the hardest is the smallest amount. The amount of content favors the lower end. Its always been that way.

[Sylvina]

Why did you choose portal instead of Dark Souls, the new Doom, or Planetside 2?

That's a rhetorical question.

A game cannot cater to everyone, a game that tries to do this is boring to all. You select a baseline difficulty and go from there. I have friends from Everquest, keyboard turners and ability clickers who would NOT be able to do the solo Duties in class/job or main scenario quests. I veer them away from FFXIV due to this. They would not, and COULD not ever enjoy the majority of the game due to their limitations.

Easy is indeed a completely impossible thing to define, but I disagree that without a literal physical or mental handicap people are "incapable" of getting good at this game or any game. It's all a matter of practice and the will to improve and not giving up.