DPS is the job of DPS.

[Miste]

Because they have a tool to make sure that they're matched with same minded people, specifically created to set additionnal requirements.

Yes, and people who want to always do slow runs also have that same tool to make sure they're matched with same minded people, specifically created to set additional requirements.

You do realize the Duty Finder does not list "slow" or "fast" as a requirement right? So they are equally not an established requirement.in DF. So why do you seem to think "speedrun" is an additional requirement, but "slow run" isn't?

PF is there for anyone who is 100% unwilling to compromise on certain things. That includes people who ALWAYS want slow runs and will never adjust to speedrunners and it also applies to speedrunners who will NEVER adjust to slow down for slower runs. Both sides need to use PF in this case OR they have to accept the fact they may not get the group they want, or that they will have to adjust, or that they may get kicked for their refusal to compromise to a majority.

This is not a double standard, this is a lowest common denominator, because that's how the Duty Finder works. The only restrictions you can set is language. If you set all languages when you queue but then kick someone because he doesn't speak the langage you prefer, you're the one to blame.

Yes, exactly, the only requirements are language and item level. So "slow" or "fast" are not in the requirements either. You are not required by the DF to go fast just as you are not required by the DF to go slow, which means both would be considered additional requirements.

So if you always wanted to speedrun and would never compromise you should use PF, but also if you always wanted to slow run and would never compromise you should also use PF.

No, I have the Duty Finder saying "They have the right to be there by my standards, so deal with it". And, like I said, it also applies to me if I'm the one asking for higher requirements, so again, no "double standard".

So these "higher requirements" are just things you personally pick and choose? Is there something in-game that says what are "higher requirements"? Does the DF explain what is a "higher requirement"?

I've been playing since launch and I don't see where the game outlines what is a "higher requirement" so it seems to me you are just trying to dictate what is considered a "higher requirement" that has to be done in PF only. There is no objectivity to it, you just pick and choose based on subjective opinion. Objectively we need to look at what DF requires and then see what isn't listed.

So again, 3 people want a speedrun and have majority and you admit on tank that if you didn't want to speedrun you would expect them to just "deal with it" and they cannot kick you. Why are you allowed to force them to go slow and they have no choice but to obey you and they cannot force their play style on you otherwise they are in the wrong but you can freely force your play style on them and be innocent of any wrong? (This is a double standard by the way, you are allowed to do something that your opposition isn't allowed to do)


PS. You have had double standards everywhere in your posts, sorry, either you just don't want to accept that or you don't understand what a double standard is.

[Reynhart]

You do realize the Duty Finder does not list "slow" or "fast" as a requirement right? So they are equally not an established requirement.in DF. So why do you seem to think "speedrun" is an additional requirement, but "slow run" isn't?

Because there is no "slow" run. What isn't "speedrun" is just "run". What you could consider is people wanting "full" run, asking to kill every single mob. And if you specifically want a "full run" you'd also better use the party finder.

So these "higher requirements" are just things you personally pick and choose? Is there something in-game that says what are "higher requirements"? Does the DF explain what is a "higher requirement"?

The PF does, where you can set a higher required ilvl, restrict the jobs that can join, or set any comment for any additionnal constraint you decide as a leader such as "No 1st timers" or "lootmaster". And people who don't want to meet your requirements simply won't join your team.

It's not a rethorical question, I want a legit answer.

Stil lthe same answer, the Duty Finder works with the "lowest common denominator" rules. This is not the case with PF or RF.

[Lilseph]

Stil lthe same answer, the Duty Finder works with the "lowest common denominator" mindset. This is not the case with PF or RF.

But why? Why it has to work like that *according to you*? You're making it look like an unwritten rule, when that's not the case. As it is now, it seems to be matter of personal preference more than anything. I respectfully disagree with your idea of expectation, as I'd suggest to be open to either scenario upon queueing up. Sure, you can convince them to do otherwise, but in the end, that rule doesn't exist. You made that rule by yourself. Don't try to impose it on other players as if you had any authority, you're a player like them. It's what the majority wants, you can either negotiate, kick the conflicting parts (which will lead to a vote) or leave.

[Reynhart]

I respectfully disagree with your idea of expectation, as I'd suggest to be open to either scenario upon queueing up. Sure, you can convince them to do otherwise, but in the end, that rule doesn't exist.

Sure, we can discuss to find a consensus, but, if that consensus can't be found because people are too stubborn, you have to backup to an objective rule. The PF was specifically created to allow people to put additionnal requirements when recruiting, allowing explicit rules that every party member accepted when they joined. There are no such things for joining in the DF except language and minimum ilvl, so, people have no right to enforce them.

[Awha]

Snip . . .

Why are you avoiding the point that the only standard or expectation that is placed on DF and roulette queue is that it is a random experience, and as a player you have no idea what kind of group you will get. Since the group make up is generated at random a individual players will or desire takes no part in it. PF is meant to remove the random nature of DF and roulette queue, be it for a speed run or to do a slower paced run.

Once again an individual player does not have the right the impose their preferences on the group, if your play style does not gel with the group simply leave said group and either create a PF, or try your luck and queue again. When a player tries to impose their desire on the group it only leads to harassment, which then has the potential to leave each member with a negative experience.

This goes for those that wish to try and force a speed run when the rest of the group is okay to take it slow, as much as it goes for people that wish the take things slow when the group clearly wants and is capable of doing a speed run. Your line of thinking will simply promote harassment and create negative experiences for players.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Sure, we can discuss to find a consensus, but, if that consensus can't be found because people are too stubborn, you have to backup to an objective rule. The PF was specifically created to allow people to put additionnal requirements when recruiting, allowing explicit rules that every party member accepted when they joined. There are no such things for joining in the DF except language and minimum ilvl, so, people have no right to enforce them.

Nor do you have any right to enforce your preferences. I can pull for the tank if I so choose. If you dislike it, your options are restricted to asking me in chat not to or kicking me. In the latter case, if the kick were denied, the majority has spoken. Now you either have to accept it or leave yourself. DF exists solely to create an easy and constantly available option for running content. How we approach it is entirely up to the 4-8 individuals.

[Awha]

Snip . . .

I do agree that PF is meant remove the variables that come with DF, though I do think as players we should go simply with the vote option a means of showing the consensus of the group. I get what you are saying, I simply wish tank and healers that prefer things a certain way spoke up at the start instead keeping to themselves, if tank and healers that prefer slower runs mention it at the start I do think most people would be understanding, and if they are not the player that made the request should not hold the group hostage and force the group to kick them, they simply should live on their on accord or adapt to the situation if it is solely a play style issue and not gear one.

Though I do not agree with trying see what the consensus is on either side of spectrum by forcing a situation that may lead to a kick. I know it is a silly notion, but I simply do not understand why people on either side try to force their preferred play style in a random situation leaving the only recourse forced removal from the group.

On the whole I do agree with your point, the collective get to decide the pace. I simply wish people would not try to test the waters and letting the vote kick option be the deciding factor.

I have never used the vote kick option before do you have to be the party leader to initiate or can anyone do it? Either way it sucks putting players be it one person or the whole group through a negative experience simply to allow the vote kick option to the deciding factor. Wish more people would be vocal and speak up at the start.

This morning I joined a group asked if the group was okay with smaller pulls, since my gear is pretty booboo. They said nah, so I just left and told them to have a nice day. I was not going to try and force smaller pulls or run the risk of them trying to force larger pulls on me. That is how these situations should be handled not by testing the waters and seeing which wins out the vote kick or people simply being indifferent and just going with the vote even though they would prefer a different type of run.

I just do not agree with the whole you do not like then kick me mindset, may has misunderstood your point, but that is what I got. Be it for either side of the spectrum when it comes to fast or slow runs, seems selfish to a degree in my eyes. If that is not what you meant then please disregard the whole post.

[Reynhart]

I do agree that PF is meant remove the variables that come with DF, though I do think as players we should go simply with the vote option a means of showing the consensus of the group.

If the tank (or the healer) is not geared enough to survive a big pull, it doesn't matter that the three others are adamant on doing a speedrun.
If the DPS can't AoE efficiently (Because, yes, low level dungeons still exist..and MNK), forcing a speedrun is not saving any time and only puts more burden on healers by removing downtimes.

I can pull for the tank if I so choose. If you dislike it, your options are restricted to asking me in chat not to or kicking me

Enjoy your death if you do it on purpose. And good job wasting your own time because you don't want to waste your own time following the tank's pace.

[Shurrikhan]

Because there is no "slow" run. What isn't "speedrun" is just "run". What you could consider is people wanting "full" run, asking to kill every single mob. And if you specifically want a "full run" you'd also better use the party finder.

Is there a single instance in this game in which a "full" run would be optional while still being at all worthwhile? There's AV first room, DH to first boss, DC to first boss, partial runs, but the only dungeons in the game I can think of in which a full run is not required to complete the dungeon are DH (2 pulls short of full), and AV (about 4 mob packs short of full).

I very frequently see people tossing up "slow run" PFs. And IS a setting specifically for it.

Stil lthe same answer, the Duty Finder works with the "lowest common denominator" rules. This is not the case with PF or RF.

No. It doesn't. It may be rule by the mean, median, or mode, but it is certainly not always the LCD unless the rest of the group is for whatever reason unwilling to kick in order to approach more common ground between that player majority.

It's merely majority rule. No more, no less.

[Cakekizyy]

Haukke Manor is another where full runs aren't required for completion.