How boring is PVP now?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The beauty of Rival Wings is that we're ALL going to be new.

This is an opportunity to get in early, learn the ins and outs of it, find others that seem to do well and team up with them. Make new friends, network and find other players you can enjoy playing with. The "unstoppable" premades are little more than that. We're just people that played long enough with and against each other that we know how each other works and we back each other up. I tend to be slightly unorthodox, and a speedy risktaker. Doesn't always work out, but with strong support or focus from my team, it pays off.

Rather than restrict premade teams, this is a great chance to see new premades and new star players arise, and the possibility for that alone is exciting.

[Lunafreya]

Was never fun.

[Synestra]

Was never fun.

It was fun in HW and some what fun in ARR but not that much as barely any non-DD job had any burst back then. So the "golden age" of XIV pvp was from beginning of HW to release of Shatter(that is when pvp died for me).

[Wintersandman]

It was fun in HW and some what fun in ARR but not that much as barely any non-DD job had any burst back then. So the "golden age" of XIV pvp was from beginning of HW to release of Shatter(that is when pvp died for me).

I agree with this. You could feel the difference between secure/slaughter to seize. The PvP skills were unique for each class and when looked at, it was extremely well balanced. Any job could take on any job. The removal of CC from dps jobs really made healers shine in present day PvP.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I agree with this. You could feel the difference between secure/slaughter to seize. The PvP skills were unique for each class and when looked at, it was extremely well balanced. Any job could take on any job. The removal of CC from dps jobs really made healers shine in present day PvP.

EXACTLY this. 4.0 brought good QoL and functional ideas, but what it did to the jobs and the overall gameplay was a huge step back.

[Rufalus]

Rather than restrict premade teams, this is a great chance to see new premades.

Premade with no restriction breaks the game. If they allowed a whole 24-player alliance premade into Rival Wings and compete against non-premades, they would probably have a 100% win rate and the opponents get 0%. Premade vs non-premade isn't fair and it would raise the barrier of entry significantly because now you must have good connections to basically form a static and be available to play same time as them to have any chance at making progress on win-related rewards. The only fair way for full premades to exist is separate premade queue and solo queue, the same way rated Feast never put premade against solo players. Unfortunately for frontlines, when matches shrink from 72 to 24 size then a whole force can be a premade, or all the good players can transfer to the same GC and not use freelance to get 100% winrate and unbalance the game.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I agree that a full alliance premade isn't terribly fair. But let me make a few corrections:

• First, premades aren't unstoppable. The only difference between a premade and non-premade is coordination, and I can say I've defeated/outsmarted premades with groups of randoms before. Takes some effort, but it IS possible.
• Connections have little to do with it. Sure, a good connection is what we all want, but it's hardly a requirement to make a team of friends to play with consistently.
• Freelancer is forced on any premade teams, so as to avoid a situation where players all transfer to one GC then queue as premades. I know there's been a movement to stop queueing Freelancer lately to reduce the chances of ending up on teams with bots, and it needs to be said that that does little more than return us to long queues because of GC imbalances. The skill of the players on your team matter far more than what color you're playing for.
• Speaking of, Rival Wings will not follow Frontlines' team setup, and instead aim for a conventional 2 team format. Ravens vs Falcons. Red vs Blue. No choice in which team you end up on. I would say that's a bit more fair, or at least less exploitable.

[Rufalus]

I appreciate theoretical possibilities and have seen a lot of crazy things in my time, including teams with no healers coming 1st. But I promise the matches I've been involved in recent weeks had such an enormous skill divide between teams that it would have taken divine intervention for the dominant side to stumble. I'm longing for the time when all teams had a chance and matches came down to the wire. That's my hope for Rival Wings. Close, competitive, exciting matches, fast queues, high participation.

[Guesswhat]

Can't read peoples mind or anything, but I'm pretty confident the nr. 1 reason people premade with 4+ players is to steamroll the other teams, ganking up those kills. Sure, on paper it's fully possible to beat a veteran premade team, I agree, and have done so myself, but for the majority of the times, playing with randoms vs premades (assuming premades are skilled) is a losing battle no matter how much of a skilled tactical genius you are. If people won't listen to you, tough luck.

Back in 3.x when queues were miserable it could become extremely frustrating when you'd play multiple days juggling between premades 24 vs 24, in an ever losing battle. These days it's not really an issue, considering the frustration factor, due to freelance and much better queues.

Imo, frontline should limit premades to light party. But I'm no nazi about it.