It's past time, Yoshi-P...

[D_C]

Lotsa words

Yer quite right matey, about a lotta things. The sad truth is that monsters don't demand enough outta the healers ta make idling not an issue. I was gonna start a new thread 'bout this but I might as well just whinge 'ere.

Healin' is too powerful. It all comes down ta this really. Too many OGCD heals that are too strong, potency across tha board is really high, mana ain't a real issue. It ruins fight design, it ruins tank design, and it's the reason ya have a DPS focus on everythin'.

They ain't gonna change it, mind ya. This shite's about caterin' ta a very...Certain demographic. Don't think it's really an issue - everyone should be able ta enjoy themselves and it don't have ta be in the same game. There are people that legitimately like this system and I wouldn't wanna see that taken from 'em.

It's just hard ta admit when ya really like this game on a lot of other points that it'll never be the way ya wish it was.

[Nezia]

Actually, the fact that healers can do some damage in this game is the reason why for the first time in over 10 years of MMOs I finally found healers to be enjoyable.

You see... In other games when I played healer I felt like just an accessorie. When running a dungeon I had to pray to the gods so that the tank was not one of those guys who are scared of seeing their own HP drop bellow 90%, or the dps was not fighting with the tank on the dps meters.

But here? I feel like a god in dgs, is the tank scared of big pulls? NP, drop some hots on him and keep spamming my damage skills. Does the tank want to pull big? Better, I focus heal on him and drop some aoe here and there. Do dps guys suck? I can compensate for that as well. Like... really, healers are just so versatile and enjoyable in this game with how much damage they can pull off while keeping the group alive, I really don't get why people want that to be gone.

[Taika]

Actually, the fact that healers can do some damage in this game is the reason why for the first time in over 10 years of MMOs I finally found healers to be enjoyable.

Same here! Although I also enjoyed playing SCH in FFXI with healing and buffing and dotting.

Also, to make it clear, I do understand that some people don't enjoy this style of tanks or healers (or BRDs or SMNs or whatever!). And I do understand that it sucks, especially if you'd like to play the game but none of the jobs feel right for you as they are. But in the end, I just think that if you pick a job and decide to join team content with it, you should do your best to play that job as well as possible in that group. I have endless tolerance if you have any true obstacles that prevent you from performing very well or even playing it right, but what I don't have understanding for is choosing to be less helpful to your team than you could, for whatever reason.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

...

In all honesty, the only thought I have would be to dabble with CC again much like what we had in the ARR Betas, it was the norm to CC everything due to trash packs being larger and hitting far harder relative to how less geared people were. Juggling a bunch of Repose timers makes it much harder to go nuts with the dps!
...

The issue is mostly that FFXIV's jobs, roles and content are designed to be far too "simple" on a macro design standpoint. Basically the only way you're interacting with monsters is by damaging them while avoiding damage via movements. In serious content there are no coherent use of interrupts, crowd controls (even though those aspects were used in 2.0) or content designed to measure the ability of a tank to get asap the aggro of mobs and to hold it (such as what was expected of tank on twintania on T5 with the snakes).

Therefore, as the tanking jobs (and to a lesser extent the healing jobs, as the healing role is little more than buffing and healing people through direct and indirect heals, aside from DPS) and the tanking role is so simple, SE had to find a way to insuflate artificial difficulty to the roles (just as artificial difficulty is added to content through DPS checks), and that artificial difficulty is the requirement to DPS for healers and tank (that is intended to mask the flaws of the current game design).

Bottom line is you cannot expect a change in the current tanking and healing design unless SE decides to overhaul its game design, but for some reason I don't really see that happening anytime soon.

With the removal of damage on CC abilities, it's possible for the dev team to make CC a more integral part of content design.

Since, without damage on the CC abilities, dps players won't be spamming them for the dps increase, and thus the mobs are much less likely to have become immune to CC.

[MOZZYSTAR]

As a healer, I like juggling tasks. I'm not one of those healers that focus too much on DPSing and not enough on healing, nor am I the healer that over-heals. If I, my tank, and my MP can handle it, I will help with DPSing and enjoy it (because I like multitasking). If I/my MP, or my tank can't handle that kind of juggling, then I focus solely on healing and maybe slipping a dot now and then when I can.

I haven't been getting commendations as frequently lately and maybe it has to do with the DPS race (or maybe not), but I haven't been getting harassed about doing what I do either. If you have, then you've been placed with some crappy parties, and that's a shame. I've been playing this game since ARR came out (off and on and through an older avatar), and have yet to come by that harassment as healer, tank, or DPS. However, I've been hearing about it on the forums. Could it have anything to do with your server and/or whom you're playing with?

[AcaciaTyrannia]

So. I do my Roulette's every single day and I have -NEVER- seen anyone complain about a tank or healer not DPSing enough.

I feel like this is an imaginary problem people are using just so they have something to complain about.

[SilverObi]

I'm not very skilled yet when it comes to optimizing healer dps (kind of a chicken in that regard) but even I can see the ebb and flow of incoming dmg and find spots where I can top off the tank and spend some time helping kill. It all comes down to what a player is comfortable with and the best way to help your healer (or tank) feel okay with putting out more damage is to create the situations for them. Or point it out in the aftermath of a pull, which I try to do now and then with pre-mades cause let's face it, DF has lots of chips on many shoulders

[Jijifli]

So. I do my Roulette's every single day and I have -NEVER- seen anyone complain about a tank or healer not DPSing enough.

I feel like this is an imaginary problem people are using just so they have something to complain about.

Given how they're so defensive...

I had a WHM spamming cure on a full health tank, and when I mentioned it was a waste of mp to keep doing that, they told me to "shove my dps elitist tongue somewhere else."

I didn't even say to dps, just to not do 99% overheal because the tank is in no danger.

[Miste]

Given how they're so defensive...

I had a WHM spamming cure on a full health tank, and when I mentioned it was a waste of mp to keep doing that, they told me to "shove my dps elitist tongue somewhere else."

I didn't even say to dps, just to not do 99% overheal because the tank is in no danger.

How dare you give constructive advice to help someone? Gosh. The game would be a much better place if people would just stop trying to help others.

(joking sarcasm....don't lynch me)

[Kacho_Nacho]

Holy -> (Swiftcast) -> Aero III -> (Assize) (Presence of Mind) -> Stone IV spam -> Cure II -> Divine Bension -> Tetragrammaton

I can also intentionally allow a tank's HP to plummet and use Benediction but the above will always be available for every pull. Either you had a poor WHM or the tank wasn't using their CDs efficiently. In the latter case, my job isn't to compensate for your deficiencies.

Thanks for the rotation, Bourne!

It's called the Dunning–Kruger effect. Accurate self-evaluation requires a certain amount of skill and knowledge in the thing you're trying to evaluate. That is: you have to know a certain amount about healing to be able to evaluate how good a healer you are.

People who lack that base knowledge have no way to assess their own skills accurately, and usually mistakenly assume they are far more skilled/knowledgeable than they truly are. Thus, they honestly believe they're really good healers and that they know what they're talking about. This applies across everything humans do, and all of us are susceptible to it. It's a skill in itself to have the self-awareness to realize that you don't know anything and that your self-evaluations are wrong (hence philosophical quotes like "The only thing I know, is that I know nothing").

Or the colloquial: "You don't know what you don't know."

(Interestingly, competent people were found in the same studies to underestimate their own abilities. That leads to a situation where they don't understand that things are easy for them because they're highly skilled/knowledgeable, and instead think that those things must be easy for everyone.)

I like to think I know a little bit about healing but there’s new stuff all the time. Makes me wonder if I’ll be decent when I reach 70.