It's past time, Yoshi-P...

[RiyahArp]

Will every expert roulette only require 17% healing? No, but Taika didn't say that, the point was made that this one did. Maybe that Savage prog BLM tipped the scales with great DPS. Maybe the WAR could have been more conservative in his pulls to require even less healing. The point is not that every expert roulette requires 17% healing uptime but rather that if a dungeon can be completed at 17% then it seems insane to argue any healer doesn't have the time to throw in some DPS.

That level of DPS is mostly found on bosses, who hit tanks ridiculously soft. You're not doing 17% healing on trash if the tank is pulling respectably in Stormblood. Trash actually hits much worse in terms of raw damage than bosses, which is a huge problem for this game. Bosses hit so weakly that your healer can dps nonstop and maintain that level of uptime easily. This is why i dislike parsers, numbers alone don't tell the whole story.

[Taika]

This is why i dislike parsers, numbers alone don't tell the whole story.

That's not very logical: wouldn't parsing the incoming damage of current SB dungeons and separating the bosses from the trash back up exactly what you were saying: trash hits harder now, bosses still not so much?

[RiyahArp]

That's not very logical: wouldn't parsing the incoming damage of current SB dungeons and separating the bosses from the trash back up exactly what you were saying: trash hits harder now, bosses still not so much?

You don't need to parse that. You can eyeball it. But stats like 87% uptime have to be put in context of what happens in the dungeon, not just trotted out like they solve arguments.

[Taika]

You don't need to parse that. You can eyeball it. But stats like 87% uptime have to be put in context of what happens in the dungeon, not just trotted out like they solve arguments.

Of course! There's context outside the numbers, such as the party setup, experience with the content and their jobs, item level etc. that the parser doesn't tell. But there's also a lot of context in parser numbers: incoming damage vs. heal (overhealing or underhealing in specific parts), mitigation and possible healing abilities used by non-healers (including the use of tank stance vs. DPS stance), activity of each party member, group DPS and its distribution between members, the amount of actions used by each party member and so on... Of course you can eyeball some of it, but the numbers can tell you things in a much more detailed manner.

Edit: I did try to provide context for the numbers in my original post about my experiment, quoted earlier in this thread. What are the things that you find to be missing from that?

[RiyahArp]

This argument people were just using those numbers without acknowledging that they exist in a context, because they batched together the different phases of the dungeon. The healer who doesn't like to DPS sees the high uptime part of trash and neglects or forgets that bosses are much easier; the dps pro is forgetting how intense it is to heal the large pack of trash that everyone is aoeing down, and that it is usually the difficult part, not the actual bosses. People tend to give numbers standing alone an authority they shouldn't give, as if stating a percent or raw target number somehow alone settles an argument.

Parsers only exist because SE failed to give accurate feedback of how well you do in a dungeon, and relied on stupid, non-intuitive forms of damage like dots being the highest potency overall of your attacks. Something as simple as a combo counter that grows each time you land your 1-2-3 combos in a time limit, or a nice explosion at the end of a DOT that gives slight bonus damage would do much better than a parser in helping the average player.

[miraidensetsu]

If healers and tanks DPS is so much important that without it no one beat enrage, how about turn something like this META?

[F_Maximillian]

If healers and tanks DPS is so much important that without it no one beat enrage, how about turn something like this META?

Doesn't that actually further the point that tank/healer dps is potent and contributes alot?

[miraidensetsu]

Doesn't that actually further the point that tank/healer dps is potent and contributes alot?

Yes, sure.

But that raises another questions: Why do you need DPS jobs if a bunch of healers - that's is on the bottom of the DPS numbers - are capable of meeting DPS checks and not hit enrage? And why DPS jobs, that deals way more damage than a healer and a bit more than a tank, don't meet those minimum numbers without the healer's and tank's help? Isn't that not even fishy?

Healers and tanks must give their help, sure. But don't forget that meet DPS check is a DPS's job, not healer's or tank's.

[Hruodig]

Yes, sure.

But that raises another questions: Why do you need DPS jobs if a bunch of healers - that's is on the bottom of the DPS numbers - are capable of meeting DPS checks and not hit enrage? And why DPS jobs, that deals way more damage than a healer and a bit more than a tank, don't meet those minimum numbers without the healer's and tank's help? Isn't that not even fishy?

Healers and tanks must give their help, sure. But don't forget that meet DPS check is a DPS's job, not healer's or tank's.

Because most people don't want to be in content longer than 30 minutes, which is where the dps come in. Also you wouldn't be meeting savage-level dps checks without proper dpses.

DPS checks are everyone's job though. Everyone contributes to dps in this game. There are other games where this isn't the case.

[Akor]

If healers and tanks DPS is so much important that without it no one beat enrage, how about turn something like this META?

that would probably be impossible to clear bc no healers would dps and even the tank would stay in tank stance