On the Nature of Monk

[wereotter]

Im told it's harder to use on PS4 vs PC. I hate trying to position any of the floor rings like on Sukuchi, Shadow Flare, and Salted Earth.

They rarely go where I need them if I have to react quickly. It's become a running joke about me among my friends as I've often placed those things out of bounds for a fight.

[Xau]

snip

make a macro, since is a ogcd it doesn't matter much

the macro is the next one
/macroicon "Shukuchi"
/ac shukuchi <t>

the <t> will make what shukuchi is automatically used on your current target(so this macro can't be used for regular movement)

[BucklesTrespen]

An interesting concept but needs some work. By introducing a 4th GCD into MNK's Rotation, you throw off the timers for DK, TS and Demo entirely and while you can reconcile that with improving the timers on those buffs, it also means a larger rotation to refresh GL and more of a chance of it dropping in Phase shifts since we can't refresh it as swiftly.

Lightning is also in a very odd since it would only serve as a means to build up GL after it's fallen off and PB is on CD, which is something MNK players want to stop from happening entirely, if possible. It might make Tornado Kick somewhat more usable but probably not enough to be viable, especially since using Lightning is already a HUGE DPS loss from using Fire and getting that guaranteed Chakra.

That's why spitballing is so much fun. You can spit balls of thought constantly. Nothing can possibly be worse than Earth Tackle!

Chimera Strike (replaces Steel Peak) (GCD ability, all forms)
Delivers an attack with a potency of 200.
Additional effect: Changes form to Chimera Form, allowing the use of any weaponskill.
Duration 5 seconds. Cooldown 45 seconds.

Form Shift.
Changes form to Chimera Form, allowing the use of any weaponskill.
Duration 10 seconds. Cooldown 60 seconds.

Now we have a forth form AKA - JOB PROGRESSION!

Doesn't cause clipping of dots or debuffs.
Chimera Strike can be both a recovery from dot falling off (benefits newer/lesser skilled monks) or a DPS burst during Raid Buff window with Tornado kick-Snap Punch-Chimera Strike-Snap Punch. Tornado Kick will now get used again. Huzzah!

Form Shift idea is my new brainchild so I don't have to press Form Shift 3-30 times every time we're about to pull and there's no countdown!

[KanameYuuki]

Something that I find quite sad while doing dungeons too, is that on HW and ARR it was pretty cool to pop featherfoot and or foresight with mantra and you could carry your team until tank got back on their feet, but now that every boss has strong tank busters and enemies hit really hard too, on the same situation I find Earth Riddle so useless, you die just as fast.

It's just so baffling even from that point of view how can anyone make a skill like that, you never want to get hit as a dps, I can't understand why would anyone add something like that unless its for a tank job, a skill that deliberately ask us to find aoes to keep doing our role because not even on boss jumps the refresh helps since they take forever to come back or cast their raid wide damage, heck they could at least make RoE GL refresh be a 30 sec or something like that, at least third eye which is for those cases it can't be helped and you can make getting hit a benefit, SAM seems like every good idea they could have implemented on MNK and then said screw that class.

All I can see is the Nerd saying "What were they thinking????"

[Asher_ff]

Here's what I'd like to see re monk changes:

RoF: remove slowdown from RoF and reduce the strength of the buff accordingly
Brotherhood: merge this with RoF - monk gains strong dmg buff and rest of party gains minor dmg buff that is not restricted by group composition. Remove ties to chakra generation RNG.
Chakra generation and TFC: increase damage of TFC; remove RNG of chakra generation via crits and instead generate 1 chakra every GL refresh; remove ability to manually charge chakra completely or have one charge grant 5 chakra outside of battle
Tornado Kick: change into big hit available only when mob's hp is low, similar to mercy stroke. Remove ties to GL.
Purification: change into AoE dmg chakra spender.
Steel Peak and 1 Ilm Punch: return stun effect to steel peak and remove it from 1 ilm punch. change 1 ilm punch into AoE move that would complete our AoE rotation.
PB: reduce recast to 60 sec
Fist stances and Tackle Mastery: turn fire and wind into traits and keep their current effects; remove earth or turn it into a trait that grants an extra 2% hp or something similar (e.g., a very minor defensive buff). Remove Tackle Mastery.
RoE: refreshes GL upon use. Alternatively, remove RoE entirely if PB cooldown is reduced. Perhaps turn RoE into a trait that reduces PB cooldown.
RoW and Shoulder Tackle: RoW no longer requires stance, change into disengage ability similar to SAM's Yaten. Have it refresh shoulder tackle upon use. Remove dmg from shoulder tackle or restrict the ability so that it may only be used when not in melee range of target.

Pretty sad seeing other jobs get back lost abilities (sch) or have moves changed entirely (war), while monk has been completely ignored despite monk feedback being overwhelmingly negative (the complaints started before SB and were proven accurate).

[hynaku]

Use to main monk but it sucks so bad now how it is.

[Powercow]

So I was kicking around some Monk ideas to make the class not only more interesting, but more distinct as well. All of the melee have positionals and monk was supposed to be able to have a flexible combo system, but that barely panned out through HW (and is now completely gone in Stormblood lol). So I suggest the following:

Remove:
Monk has some serious button bloat.
1) Remove Fists of Wind, Fire, and Earth. These are all terrible and boring things that need to die off.
2) Remove Howling Fist. I'll get to this in a moment but it's an unnecessary oGCD.
3) Remove the potency from Shoulder Tackle. This will free up another oGCD.
4) Remove Internal Release. Put down your pitchforks, I'm getting to that at the bottom.
5) Remove Tackle Mastery. It's bad, and with no Fists skills to work with it's even more worthless than it is on live.

Chakra System Overhaul
I know I said the point of Monk was to make them more distinct, but the lack of a meaningful secondary resource (like ninki, kenki, enochian, etc.) really makes the job feel incomplete.
1) Increase the maximum number of Chakras from 5 to 7. Not only is this incredibly dumb from a gameplay standpoint (oh your thing is up, better use it before- LOL J/K YOU WASTED SOME), but from a lore standpoint as well. Seriously, the whole Monk story through HW was about the 7 Chakras. It'll add some much-needed leeway, especially since the Chakra system is about to become much more important.
2) Reduce the cost of The Forbidden Chakra to 3, keep its cooldown. Reduce damage to 180 potency.
3) Remove the Greased Lightning loss from Tornado Kick. Instead, Tornado Kick has a 45 second cooldown and costs 5 Chakra. Same potency, except now it does its damage in a sharp-falloff AoE (20% less damage to second, 40% to third, 60% to fourth, and 80% to all targets beyond that.)
4) Re-introduce Touch of Death as an oGCD skill, costing 2 Chakra. Have it deal 20 instant, 25 per tick for 30 seconds -- just like before.
5) Brotherhood now also has a chance to grant Chakra from spell casts. Bonus damage is still applied only to physical damage dealers other than the monk, although this effect will stack with itself so parties with 2 monks don't get screwed on Chakra generation.
6) One Ilm Punch costs 50 TP, deals 100 potency and reduces threat on the target by 20%. If executed from the rear, adds a Chakra. This adds some RNG protection if ToD or TK is going to need to be used again soon and you don't have enough, or if you wanna stock some up for Riddle of Fire. Also it adds an element of agro control that's more subtle and unique compared to the simple agro-drop of Elusive Jump or Lucid Dreaming, without also stepping on the toes of Shadewalker.
Side note: with TFC being reduced to 3, that means you can now only start a fight with 3. Between OIP and Brotherhood you'll get plenty more in time for Riddle of Fire to TK and ToD.

Riddle System Overhaul
So the Riddle system is a giant failure -- Riddle of Wind is worthless, Riddle of Fire is awkward, and Riddle of Earth is unreliable *and* awkward.
1) Riddle of Fire: is now a 20% damage and 20% crit chance increase, with no slow associated. With the removal of Internal Release (and Fists of Fire), Monk damage will be lower and this would change RoF from the "ugh, almost time to use RoF" to "hell yeah RoF is almost up!" button.
2) Riddle of Wind: is now its own separate button, 2 minute cooldown. This increases the range for all of your attacks to 25 yalms for 15 seconds. This gives monk a more interesting ranged attack than the other melee, and allows them to lose comparatively little if a fight forces melee to be off the boss every once in a while. Adjust the cooldown to be longer if necessary -- this should be a few-times-per-fight button at best, not allow monk to ignore most mechanics. That's what Riddle of Earth is for!
3) Riddle of Earth: total overhaul. Turns the skill into a reverse-Wildfire -- for the next 15 seconds, you place a counter upon yourself. Upon expiration (or reactivation), places a shield on yourself for 25% the damage dealt while the counter was active. Shield lasts 15 seconds. 4 minute cooldown.
--This gives monk, with proper setup, a unique utility -- it allows monk (when combined with Riddle of Wind) to be the best guy for soaking towers or the like; effectively this increases the DPS of the offtank who doesn't need to get off the boss anymore. The monk can set up a big Riddle of Earth shield, pop Riddle of Wind while running to the position, pop True North if need be, and lose very little DPS. It could also, if used perfectly, allow monk to ignore a mechanic every 4 minutes if he times its use and shield properly, as many AoEs are either just big hits or big hits with debuffs (where the debuff only applies if actual HP damage is dealt -- the shield is big enough to ensure that won't happen.)

Greased Lightning:
Purification: now restores 100 tp per tick for 9 seconds. In addition, for its duration, greased lightning's timer will increase instead of decrease. This adds a more interesting and, dare I say it, slightly skillful way of maintaining GL3, as you'd wanna let GL3 tick down a bit before hitting it again, granting up to 18 more seconds of Greased Lightning if used properly.

Quick summary:
The overall goal of these changes is to make Monk more unique, more interactive, and have a definite use in the party past "oh hey mantra is good for progression sometimes lol." With proper fight knowledge, Monk can boost the OT's DPS by taking care of mechanics for him, or allow the monk to do more personal DPS by being able to mitigate a mechanic that might otherwise mess with other melee. The more frequent Forbidden Chakras and removal of RoF's slow makes Monk feel faster without needing to resort to GL4, while ToD and TK make up for the loss of Shoulder Tackle and Howling Fist in the rotation. Keeping them in would cause double-weaving to be a necessity during Riddle of Fire, and most people have trouble doing that on most jobs with a normal ping, much less on something like Monk with the 15% haste effect. Also, Shoulder Tackle might actually be up when needed for once, so that's nice.

Wouldn't this make Monk overpowered as all hell?
The higher potency and frequency of Tornado Kick over Howling Fist [330>210, plus used 33% more often so roughly 230 potency more per minute], Touch of Death over Shoulder Tackle [272 compared to 143 (with dragon kick) every 30 seconds, so 258 more potency per minute], and the removal of the slow from Riddle of Fire and the greater frequency of TFC (from reduced cost and Brotherhood being stronger) sure makes it seem that way.
Do remember though: Monk is losing IR (30% crit with 1/4 uptime, so 7.5% crit on average) and getting the smaller crit effect added to Riddle of Fire (20% with 1/6th uptime, so ~3.3%), TFC is going from 250 to 180 potency (so a net gain of only 10 potency per Chakra), and Riddle of Fire is a straight 5% total damage shaved right off the top. Also with the greater emphasis on Chakras [and a way to manage threat!], Monks will use One Ilm Punch instead of True Strike every once in a while, which is a 90 potency loss.
If you're speaking on the mechanics-mitigating aspects -- maybe? But Monk needs something interesting.

[wereotter]

Chakra System Overhaul
I know I said the point of Monk was to make them more distinct, but the lack of a meaningful secondary resource (like ninki, kenki, enochian, etc.) really makes the job feel incomplete.
1) Increase the maximum number of Chakras from 5 to 7. Not only is this incredibly dumb from a gameplay standpoint (oh your thing is up, better use it before- LOL J/K YOU WASTED SOME), but from a lore standpoint as well. Seriously, the whole Monk story through HW was about the 7 Chakras. It'll add some much-needed leeway, especially since the Chakra system is about to become much more important.
2) Reduce the cost of The Forbidden Chakra to 3, keep its cooldown. Reduce damage to 180 potency.
3) Remove the Greased Lightning loss from Tornado Kick. Instead, Tornado Kick has a 45 second cooldown and costs 5 Chakra. Same potency, except now it does its damage in a sharp-falloff AoE (20% less damage to second, 40% to third, 60% to fourth, and 80% to all targets beyond that.)
4) Re-introduce Touch of Death as an oGCD skill, costing 2 Chakra. Have it deal 20 instant, 25 per tick for 30 seconds -- just like before.
5) Brotherhood now also has a chance to grant Chakra from spell casts. Bonus damage is still applied only to physical damage dealers other than the monk, although this effect will stack with itself so parties with 2 monks don't get screwed on Chakra generation.
6) One Ilm Punch costs 50 TP, deals 100 potency and reduces threat on the target by 20%. If executed from the rear, adds a Chakra. This adds some RNG protection if ToD or TK is going to need to be used again soon and you don't have enough, or if you wanna stock some up for Riddle of Fire. Also it adds an element of agro control that's more subtle and unique compared to the simple agro-drop of Elusive Jump or Lucid Dreaming, without also stepping on the toes of Shadewalker.
Side note: with TFC being reduced to 3, that means you can now only start a fight with 3. Between OIP and Brotherhood you'll get plenty more in time for Riddle of Fire to TK and ToD.

I like the idea of having something to do with the chakras rather than just Purification and Forbidden Chakra.

A couple adjustments I could make to this since now chakras are going to be much more important than before:

All chakra skills need to have a cooldown to them, possibly longer than they are now. Forbidden Chakra, for example, could keep its same potency if it had a 60 second cooldown. Think of it like Bhavakara on ninja. To counterbalance all these chakra moves, I would say that deep meditation needs to be added to the monk toolkit at an earlier level than 62, and that it needs to be buffed on par with bard's similar trait, and needs to give you a 100% chance for a chakra upon crit. At which point, Brotherhood could be changed to a straight damage buff not unlike Devotion from a summoner without the need to give you extra chakra stacks.

Also, since it mentioned the skill, I think that since TP issues are no longer a thing, Purification could be adjusted to be an Esuna on a small AOE. Sabin had an effect like that in FFVI, so it's not out of line to give it to monks here. Especially as so many healers nowadays don't carry Esuna....

[Tracewood]

Going to add some simple suggestions.

Mantra: Increases magic potency by 20% for ten seconds, this includes curing and magic damage for 10 seconds. Refreshes every 120s.
---This would be good for caster heavy parties in raids. Brotherhood can stay the way it is since we still benefit from tanks and any physical DPS present.

Riddle of Earth: Refreshes Greased Lightning timer on use (this time, no taking a hit required.)

Make One Ilm Punch an AoE ability.

Bring back Touch of Death.