"Final Fantasy XI-2" AKA: "Let's all flame each other because someone mentioned FFXI"

[Maxthunder]

I really have to respond to this, this is something SE should really consider doing. Now I wont break the answers down into the specific questions as other people have.

#1. I love the battle system and how the commands become a drop down list. I dont like the ffxiv bar at all
#2.Bring back the old spells that are tier based along with the different aoe spells. FFXI had it right. In FFXIV the way that they basicly took out the tiers and the fact that we are now limited to a few non- aoe spells, I just find it more trouble than it worth, now not to forget that the spells that aoe is another trouble some area as well.
#3. FFXI weapon skills that you earn by useing the weapon added to the game, in FFXIV your weapon is the same as your level. If the feature was in FFXIV people would be trying to skill-up, unfortunatly we have none and its kinda of lame.
#4. Most if not all the end game from FFXI cause we all know that FFXIV has nothing, personally I dont consider the primal fight nor moogle end game. Its just a time sync that was poorly designed.
#5 The job system to sub-jobs was really great. In ffxiv wow so we get to use abilities from other jobs, but we can only use 10 from other jobs. This in no way even comes close to haveing a main job/ sub job. The possibilities in FFXIV are limited, where as IN ffXI players had pretty much if you will unlimited possibilities.

I could go on and on from the auction house to the mog house. The problem is people complained it was too hard or took to long. Level-sync never did like it, never will, worst thing they could have done. The abyessa areas seemed to ruin FFXI. What SE is doing is not a bad idea the fact that it seems as they are trying to cater to both hardcore and casual alike is the issue. At this point in time everything is catered to casual players, what needs to be done is find a balance of the 2 not 1 over the other. I understand not everyone has the time to put in but what they have done with FFXIV has ruined the game, for now and only time will tell if they can actually recover from this mess that they created by what they have tried to do. What made FFXI was the fact that there was always a challenge, now in ffxiv um.. where is the challenge?

[Seif]

I really have to respond to this, this is something SE should really consider doing. Now I wont break the answers down into the specific questions as other people have.

#1. I love the battle system and how the commands become a drop down list. I dont like the ffxiv bar at all
#2.Bring back the old spells that are tier based along with the different aoe spells. FFXI had it right. In FFXIV the way that they basicly took out the tiers and the fact that we are now limited to a few non- aoe spells, I just find it more trouble than it worth, now not to forget that the spells that aoe is another trouble some area as well.
#3. FFXI weapon skills that you earn by useing the weapon added to the game, in FFXIV your weapon is the same as your level. If the feature was in FFXIV people would be trying to skill-up, unfortunatly we have none and its kinda of lame.
#4. Most if not all the end game from FFXI cause we all know that FFXIV has nothing, personally I dont consider the primal fight nor moogle end game. Its just a time sync that was poorly designed.
#5 The job system to sub-jobs was really great. In ffxiv wow so we get to use abilities from other jobs, but we can only use 10 from other jobs. This in no way even comes close to haveing a main job/ sub job. The possibilities in FFXIV are limited, where as IN ffXI players had pretty much if you will unlimited possibilities.

I could go on and on from the auction house to the mog house. The problem is people complained it was too hard or took to long. Level-sync never did like it, never will, worst thing they could have done. The abyessa areas seemed to ruin FFXI. What SE is doing is not a bad idea the fact that it seems as they are trying to cater to both hardcore and casual alike is the issue. At this point in time everything is catered to casual players, what needs to be done is find a balance of the 2 not 1 over the other. I understand not everyone has the time to put in but what they have done with FFXIV has ruined the game, for now and only time will tell if they can actually recover from this mess that they created by what they have tried to do. What made FFXI was the fact that there was always a challenge, now in ffxiv um.. where is the challenge?

I agree with everything that guy just said and I'd pay any amount of money to play a product like that.

Especially: #1. I love the battle system and how the commands become a drop down list. I dont like the ffxiv bar at all

Yes I completely agree. Skill bar seems cheap and waaaaaaaaay too pc like and it's also cutting the number of usable skills so much.

[Elexia]

Then what about all the other combinations that didn't fly. What about all the other groups that required /nin because of stupid shadows? What about how literally everything you WANTED to do, required a SPECIFIC job/sub combination..

Bull.

You weren't required to "/nin to everything" only if you weren't skilled enough or smart enough to know when to avoid rushing in and getting yourself killed or if you were that idiot who did everything in his or her power to strip hate from the tank or blew your load the second the battle started. /nin was a fall back mentality because it's the EASIEST way out.

Combinations that "didn't fly" didn't fly for a reason, because they just plain didn't work for your main job. Why in gods name would you sub BLM on your PLD for example? What benefit does that have and why WOULD it have a benefit?

That has zero to do with balance you speak of.

The auction house was just a primitive version of a more modern AH. If XIV reverts back to that same terrible design... it is a mistake. Plenty of games out now have improved the AH UI and functionality.

Stop lying to yourself. A modern AH is nothing more than a glorified vendor without the NPC item list and sell/buy price restrictions and you know it.

That is because modern MMOs have challenges built into the fight and specific phases.

Nope, every new MMO I've been playing isn't challenging because of the ability to avoid almost every ability and spam every ability with abilities to reset your cooldown in order to spam more.

It's a spam fest, so she is actually correct that MMOs WITHOUT TP systems are even more simpler than XI/XIV being "simplified" by a TP system.

Lets not forget it could take months to gain 10 levels

My friend it took me no more than 5 hours to reach level 10, then a day to reach level 35 even way back when. Are you one of those players that soloed? It in no way shape or form ever took you a month or more to gain 10 levels in FFXI.

It's more like you failed to recognize that the story was far to difficult to experience for new players.

So all of us new players in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 had issues experiencing the storyline? Glad you made this clear because I was clearly mistaken that I've went through all of the game's storyline as a new player and even on 2 new characters over time.

I get that XI is this "outdated MMORPG" but there's just so much misinformation it's no wonder people who don't play the game hate when it's mentioned.

[Jennestia]

Then what about all the other combinations that didn't fly. What about all the other groups that required /nin because of stupid shadows? What about how literally everything you WANTED to do, required a SPECIFIC job/sub combination. That to me is 100% restrictive, not because it "isn't optimal." The dev team had perfect opportunities to fix these chances and failed to act on any of them. If they wanted set job/subs, why did they even bother with the subjob system? I was refused exp leveling groups because I didn't have /ninja leveled up for a very long time. So, even though I didn't WANT to play or even touch ninja, I had to level it for both Corsair and Blue Mage JUST to level up. To me that is garbage.

This is false -- My main jobs are Corsair and Blue Mage and guess what? I didn't need /nin to use it or level it, you know why? /RNG and /RDM were 100x better and more beneficial to Corsair than /NIN was -- For Blue Mage, it's a versitale job, as a tank you wouldn't touch /nin, you would load up defense and use /WAR because you not only have multiple self heals, you have multiple stoneskins as well as the ability to hold hate even better than a Paladin at times. /NIN was only useful for solo play on Blue Mage -- Did you know Blue Mage has 2 self shadow (that can be AoE'd) spells?

Yes, a ton of alternatives that nobody wanted to do.

Exactly, the alternatives existed, you strictly stated that you HAD to level in the same zones every time you wanted to level a new job, which is false -- You always had options and the choice to level elsewhere, I know I've personally leveled in a lot more locations than Qufim especially when level sync came out, why? Because overcrowding actually forced people to finally realize there were...wait for it -- other locations to level that were even better than the standard Valkrum > Qufim > Citadel > Caves route!

That is because modern MMOs have challenges built into the fight and specific phases. XI's "challenges" included sever problems, battling with the worst UI in MMO history, and waiting for that extra TP build which actually stifles your play style.

What server problems? I played FFXI from Japan and America, I noticed absolutely zero difference in response time or even spawn timers because even if Japanese players seen a mob "first" it doesn't register on the server till a set period of time, hence how bots were even created.

You were forced to level up certain classes or be excluded from fights.

Mm, nope. My roster includes Corsair, White Mage, Blue Mage, Puppetmaster, Paladin, Bard and Dragoon -- I've done events on every single one of my jobs with only Bard ever getting the most use out of all of them.

My friend it took me no more than 5 hours to reach level 10, then a day to reach level 35 even way back when. Are you one of those players that soloed? It in no way shape or form ever took you a month or more to gain 10 levels in FFXI.

Especially since 2007 and later -- You could literally go from 1 - 50 in a few weeks. Once Abyssea hit you could go from 30 - 99 in hours.

While the way it is setup isn't bad, it is definitely outdated however. Other MMO's have proven you can have a heavily story driven experience to make your way to beginning level to max. One of Final Fantasy's biggest appeals is story and the original Dev's should of thought of what they can do to keep you with interacting in the story experience from beginning to end. FFXI's grind system was it's standards at the time, so it is understandable how it was setup, especially with PS2 limitations. FFXIV was made when MMO's are more well established and capable of much more than what games like Everquest and FFXI could provide at the time. FFXIV I feel like they took the lazy route. While FFXIV's story is still really good, it could of been executed better.

But like I said, I am on the same side as you. I am fine with this setup, but I feel it could of been done much better. SE isn't like other RPG companies, they are always expected to go above and beyond on their games, especially FF, and that is why people get really disappointed, because they expect so much.

Eorzea would of be much more lively if it's story structure was heavily driven in the leveling experience.

It could have been much better, this is why a lot of people were hoping SE took what worked in XI and fixed all of the flaws and made it 100x better.

[Seif]

Bull.

You weren't required to "/nin to everything" only if you weren't skilled enough or smart enough to know when to avoid rushing in and getting yourself killed or if you were that idiot who did everything in his or her power to strip hate from the tank or blew your load the second the battle started. /nin was a fall back mentality because it's the EASIEST way out.

Combinations that "didn't fly" didn't fly for a reason, because they just plain didn't work for your main job. Why in gods name would you sub BLM on your PLD for example? What benefit does that have and why WOULD it have a benefit?

That has zero to do with balance you speak of.



Stop lying to yourself. A modern AH is nothing more than a glorified vendor without the NPC item list and sell/buy price restrictions and you know it.



Nope, every new MMO I've been playing isn't challenging because of the ability to avoid almost every ability and spam every ability with abilities to reset your cooldown in order to spam more.

It's a spam fest, so she is actually correct that MMOs WITHOUT TP systems are even more simpler than XI/XIV being "simplified" by a TP system.



My friend it took me no more than 5 hours to reach level 10, then a day to reach level 35 even way back when. Are you one of those players that soloed? It in no way shape or form ever took you a month or more to gain 10 levels in FFXI.




So all of us new players in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 had issues experiencing the storyline? Glad you made this clear because I was clearly mistaken that I've went through all of the game's storyline as a new player and even on 2 new characters over time.

I get that XI is this "outdated MMORPG" but there's just so much misinformation it's no wonder people who don't play the game hate when it's mentioned.

I agree if only people like the one you replied to could keep their mouths shut about the games they clearly know absolutely nothing about.

I started playing in 2010 and above all else the storyline was the no1 reason I wanted to finish that game. It had a real ending and it was cohesive throughout.


XIV however totally falls apart somewhere between the 3rd and 5th mission after which you have no sense of goal or even theme in this game. The characters are completely flat without any personality and they make the world of Eorzea feel empty and inhabitated by zombies.

[SniperRifle]

What to stay away from is also simple forced grouping as the only means of leveling. Now grouping should always remain vastly superior then Soloing but there must be an outlet for those not able to level with groups.

I think Campaign helped fix this issue in FFXI. No clue why they wouldn't bring it back, was great for solo'ing, could do it as small groups as well, even with whole parties (though not as efficient as grinding), you got campaign points to rank up and purchase gear (like the Grand Companies). Constantly were Campaigns going on all over the world so you weren't in the same zone (i.e doing the same 3 Halitali GC quests a bajillion times). The cap on these campaigns were like 2k or something, but in 14 they could be like 50-60% of optimal party xp...

Math: i.e

60 minutes in 8 man PT grinding = 100,000xp
15 minutes in 8 man PT grinding = 25,000xp

so 50% in Campaign

60 minutes in Campaign = 50,000xp
15 minutes in Campaign = 12,500xp

This is just an example of the math that would be used to calculate optimal Campaign XP. And Campaigns would end every 15mins, and you'd have to wait (go get something to eat, fresh air, school work) or go to a new Outpost to do a new Campaign right away. Plus w/ Campaign you'd be getting Campaign currency which would go towards other useful items and mediocore gear. Restore Anima potions? Chocobo speed potions? Idk.

And I'm aware Hamlet Defense is coming, but who actually stated these Hamlet defenses were going to be anything like Besieged or Campaign?

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

I think for each of us, we've had different experiences with FFXI, as one might have had with other MMOs. I came in FFXI late 2003 with a rush of other people on the PC English-speaking release. And even amongst those folks, found a friendly and large linkshell, but even they held the community expectations. Naturally so, I mean, if you had the choice of:

25 White Mage
25 White Mage, 4 Black Mage
25 White Mage, 12 Warrior
25 White Mage, 12 Black Mage

And back then with the initial learning curve, a month after English launch got most of the aggressive ones to the Level 25~35ish range (120+ hrs), soloing efficiently past level 10 without Beast Tamer was unheard of, and story that had higher level requirements would only take more time to achieve.

I imagine most Final Fantasy fans before that would prefer to have finished the main story, heavily gotten to know their characters, and explore many side quests with those same 120 hours, instead, they're forming an alliance to ascend a tower at level 30 only to discover they missed a step four hours ago. (which an offline FF game wouldn't let you go that long without missing a vital step).

This is a snap shot of my experience in FFXI in 2003, early 2004.

This post has no context since I truncated it by several dozen paragraphs worth.

[Platinumstorm]

I agree with everything that guy just said and I'd pay any amount of money to play a product like that.

Especially: #1. I love the battle system and how the commands become a drop down list. I dont like the ffxiv bar at all

Yes I completely agree. Skill bar seems cheap and waaaaaaaaay too pc like and it's also cutting the number of usable skills so much.

If FFXIV went to a drop down bar system I would never play the game again, seriously. That system was easily one of the worst features of FFXI for me.