BLM needs more damage

[Sunako]

Well if we think both utility and pure dps jobs are "balanced", pure dps will provide better dps if healers and tanks play safe and sit in tank stance and healers focus more healing. In normal weekly clear parties healers and tanks are not doing 35 - 40% of group overall dps like speed runners are doing. I dont believe healers and tanks are supposed to do that much damage either based by SE calculations. That's why utility jobs will always shine better than pure dps job.

[zuzu-bq]

Actually, raw damage shines better when the party isn't doing well. Especially when healers and tanks aren't pulling good damage out of them. Point of this thread is: BLM can't shine with its raw damage because there is a caster with utility and better raw damage at the same time.

[Llugen]

I mean, at high end your healers and tanks should be pulling good damage, and most of the current thread(s) have been about the high end, so I would question the relevance.


I made a joke about this earlier but I was pretty serious when that BLM should not be "the SAM of casters" but rather SAM should be the BLM of all the other jobs. In other words, BLM should be doing the strongest damage of all the jobs by a fair margin, because then movement loss has to be factored in.

[Remedi]

.... So almost universally, exactly like I said. And to be honest it didn't really happen at 4.0 launch with SAM, the only reason SAM "fell out of power" was because power creep from the other jobs for synergy (and because it was pretty simple and therefore easy to progress on, or so the SAMs in my groups have told me).

And as I pointed out previously, even if they increased BLM's damage by a large margin, lowered damage from losing uptime during mechanics would basically negate it anyway. Again, all for strategy, but there's only so much planning you can do when you have to move so constantly (unending coil).

Not exactly like you said I made only few examples, but my Point is that power always wins and it can come from raw damage or synchro damage, whichever is tuned better. On wow for example almost every bosses have been killed with stacking whichever class had the strongest dmg going as for FFXIV meta started beign a real thing since midas honestly.
As you said the problem is the power creep, but it wasn't from their synergy tbh, was that their base power was boosted which was THEN amplified by the synergy (though I wouldn't say SAM is any easier than DRG or MNK tbh)

You say that increasing the dmg to BLM would be negated by the lost uptime from movements in unending coil, I'd say that would be the skillcap, in the other thread there was that guy who said exactly what you need and what you can plan to keep going, also Galvuu said that if the reward is higher dps beign able to counter a harsh enviroment, to which I agree, I don't see why we should shun that.

[Llugen]

Pure power was never overtuned in this game because "pure power" didn't really exist until 4.0 save for MNK which was reconciled by running double monk or not at all (#deletemonk, remember), and you're really arguing semantics with me, here anyway (your statement about "synergy plus base power" is literally exactly what I said, and "exactly what I said" was almost universally, so some exceptions which is exactly what you're saying).

I explained exactly why we should shun harsh punishment for BLM in progression in the other thread: no job should ever be counter-intuitive under any circumstances. I like the idea of strategy and planning ahead, certainly, but I don't want to have to learn a fight on RDM and then play BLM only later. It should be just as acceptable for BLM to be taken in progression.

[Remedi]

I'm using my knowledge on multiple games tbh, this game has not been going long for alot and tbh the raiding content has not enough variety anyway.
If you are talking only about this game well ye you are not wrong at all, but since other games have shown that pure power has it's benefit I can't really say that synergy simply wins out.

As for the other thing, well I wouldn't say it's counterintuitive and in my opinion ppl simply overestimate just how much mechanics are distructive for BLM during prog, I think I've already stated that imho prog is a place where everyone has to essentially learn how to play the job in that scenario in essence, but I think you and some other ppl don't agree with this, well I suppose that we'll have to disagree on this point, maybe I'm wrong and BLM has to do too much on some fights which is a possibility, though I have to admit I kinda like the challenge in a way so probably I'm biased by this

[Llugen]

You are correct, I am discussing in this game only, but in my opinion that's all that is really relevant to the conversation. What SE will do will be what SE will do, not Blizzard, etc.


I don't consider being screwed out of casts by being selected by two liquid hells in a row "a challenge." That's just pure RNG crap and BLM does NOT have the tools to deal with it properly. Sure, melee have to figure out how to deal with that kind of uptime loss as well, but that is different and unique to the melee role. I'm talking about from purely a ranged damage perspective, all four of the other ranged jobs suffer almost NOTHING from having to deal with heavy movement.

[Remedi]

That I can agree with, even though as you said it's a problem for melees too, that has higher repercussions to us BLM, though I wouldn't say that heavy movements are really fine for RDM (remember all their skills are casted and dualcast works only on 1)
I do think that we can use some fixes in it, like as I said the possibility of scathe beign buffed and extedning our stances (frankly let's be honest it has no sinergy to us in anyway it's just THERE) and/or beign able to proc firestarte/thundecloud

I don't think that talking about what other games have done isn't relevant especially since most of the spells in the game have or had a wow equivalent and BLM does have some mechanics familiar with destruction warlock even (umbral hearts= backdraft)
Also we know that FF14 devs are keeping wow under scrutiny (and viceversa) so as much as dislike blizzard handling of balance I think that some points can be used

[Llugen]

Swiftcast into Dualcast on RDM is a pretty significant amount of movement time. Plus, if you need to use things like corps/displacement early for the sake of mechanics then you should do so, and creep back up during dualcasts for combo after. I can definitively say that RDM and movement is JUST fine, or at least it was for all of Deltascape savage progression for me. Not to mention that since their actual casts are shorter (2s on Jolt vs 2.5s on Fire), you can much more easily "greed" a cast on RDM than you possibly could on BLM.

The more I think about it, the more I think just letting Fire/Blizzard I be instant cast under Enochian makes the most sense. Then if you use Fire you can even get the chance at the Firestarter as well. This would be pretty significant damage increase over emergency Scathe, and if you HAVE a proc already then you can just use that. Saving/"stacking" procs would also be really good for this, I think, but that would require some pretty major adjustments involving duration etc.

[Remedi]

Frankly from my experience it wasn't that bad on BLM either, though i will say that once I saw V3S and V4s I told myself that ranged were gonna be a thing again.

I doubt that they will allow us to have f1 and b1 instant under enochian though and as for stacking procs, well that was a request of some ppl since 2.0 so not getting my hopes up.

Personally I'd rather have enochian upgrading F1 into F4 and B1 into B4, mostly for a cool factor and a less keybinding factor thinking also to the future, ofc they would refresh stances and procs firestarter.