Suggestions for bringing DRK up to par, and QoL changes.

[Claire_Pendragon]

It would help, I think, but the problem is drk can't use it in raid to get the full effect, except perhaps on add phase. It's pretty much an (odd) dungeon ability, and it needs to be more useful or replaced.

An interesting take on walking dead, but again it becomes an ability with a niche use. You wouldn't be able to use for the same things Eq or Clemency are used for.

Thats why i was saying you could "cancel" the effect, so if the fight is just 1 boss, no adds, pop it when its up, and turn it off imediately. (unless you want the heal to reflect how long its been active, then canceling it at the last second gives the biggest heal)
The act of turning it off, puts it on CD, and heals HP only, comparable to the current amount, maybe less if its based on how long its been on the enemy.

[whiskeybravo]

(unless you want the heal to reflect how long its been active, then canceling it at the last second gives the biggest heal)

That's a decent solution, honestly. I just meant, like, you wouldn't be able to use it for the full effect if it was instant activation for half. But this suggestion would solve that for the most part, although, there's still the minor issue of potency vs need. IE, "I need this heal right away but 25% isn't enough". Which is certainly better than it currently is, but still a bit behind compared to the other tanks options.

[Claire_Pendragon]

That's a decent solution, honestly. I just meant, like, you wouldn't be able to use it for the full effect if it was instant activation for half. But this suggestion would solve that, although, there's still the minor issue of potency vs need. IE, "I need this heal right away but 25% isn't enough"

While not incorrect, Im too casual of a player to think of it that way.
I break it down into priority.

(1) Do I have a WHM to benediction me when I hit Walking dead? If So, go to #2, if not, I save sole survivor for Walking dead.
(2) Is there any adds in this fight, where I need to AoE a lot? If not, go to #3, if so, sole survivor the 1st add to die, to keep my MP going for more AoEs.
(3) Is there an add in the fight I need to tank, while also MTing the boss? If not, go to #4 if so, then I'll probably use sole survivor for the MP, and hope the heal helps. (Otherwise i'd be in the situation ur proposing.)
(4) Its only a boss in this fight. If so, I'll just use it as an emergency heal.

Essentially, I pick based on the fight, rather than in the moment.

[Reynhart]

Or allow it to target PT members too, and Walking Dead triggers the effect of sole survivor.

Long time ago, I suggested somes changes to Living Dead.
- Increase its recast to 6 min.
- If your HP reaches 1, you create a Zombie enemy with the same HP as your max HP. If the Zombie is still alive after 10s, it kills you.
- If the Zombie dies while under the effect of Sole Survivor, Living Dead recast is halved.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Long time ago, I suggested somes changes to Living Dead.
- Increase its recast to 6 min.
- If your HP reaches 1, you create a Zombie enemy with the same HP as your max HP. If the Zombie is still alive after 10s, it kills you.
- If the Zombie dies while under the effect of Sole Survivor, Living Dead recast is halved.

The obvious weakness to this would be the DPS loss, unless the zombie is taking over threat for you, and attacking the boss with the same amount of DPS you'd be doing.
(if its tanking and dpsing, then the next weakness is that it can potentially add too much dps)

While this may be a bit overly complicated, its technically an improvement when it comes to future tanks, and needing to make invincibles, and not just be copy pasted from what we have now. (as it would free up another "survive at 1hp" styled one. and of course a zombie fits DRK more than another future tank, unless its a pet class, liek BST)

[whiskeybravo]

Essentially, I pick based on the fight, rather than in the moment.

Sure, ideally that could all be planned out once you know what you're up against. I guess I'm thinking of it as, I've seen a lot of clutch Eq's and Clemency save the day. It'd be hard to use that version of soul survivor in the same way. Like say you're using it for the MP in situation like 2 or 3 but then get a couple of untimely crits, clipped by an aoe, healer falls asleep, whatever, rip clutch self-heal lol

I do think a combination of that, and tacking a heal on TBN break might be sufficient. In LD you could shield yourself from a bit of damage while the healer starts healing, then it breaks and boosts your HP up on top of the SS. Or in the situations above, pop SS and shield yourself for the extra heal. I think it would put drk in a lot better shape in the self-heal dept.

Long time ago, I suggested somes changes to Living Dead.
- Increase its recast to 6 min.
- If your HP reaches 1, you create a Zombie enemy with the same HP as your max HP. If the Zombie is still alive after 10s, it kills you.
- If the Zombie dies while under the effect of Sole Survivor, Living Dead recast is halved.

Isn't that kind of double-dipping? Like, you already can't go below one, then the zombie creates an additional HP pool to take hits for you for 10 sec?

Or I guess you'd have to "die" to an auto-attack or something while the TB kills the zombie so the zombie doesn't kill you. Hmm. It's an interesting idea. Would likely be difficult during prog. Or what if there's no auto-attacks like Neo? Seems like mechanics would be spread apart too far for it to work. Except for maybe the quick aero 3 > earthshakers. But maybe not

*edit, yea I'm not sure it would work in neo. If we just look where the invulns are used. The first delta attack you'd have to "die" to aero 3 - but delta attack happens exactly 10 sec later. For the double attack, there's like 7 seconds between antilight and the double attack. Might be enough. The second Delta attack is like 17-sec after antilight, wouldn't work there. The third double attack is 8 seconds after charybdis.. That takes you down to 1 HP, right? Might work there. So that'd be enough I suppose, as long as one tank can get the first and last doubles and the other tank can get the delta attacks. Kinda funny that, if I'm looking at this right, it would pretty much guarantee a spot for war based on this as you couldn't do it with pld/drk.* Sure you didn't intend for that :P

(* - I guess you could still do it the proper way by sharing damage)

No. As I said, the Zombie is an enemy. You (the party) have to kill it before the timer runs out.

Didn't see that coming. DRK would then have the only invuln that reduces raid damage on boss. Granted, 57k is not a lot at current ilevels. Still be pretty odd. I don't approve lol

Zombie punching bag better idea xD

[Crater]

Since the subject has kind of turned to Sole Survivor and how it desperately needs some re-tuning, I had this thought the other day:


Sole Survivor -> Survivor
Recast: 120s
Duration: 15s

Creates an area in which party members will only suffer 85% of all damage inflicted.
4% of your HP and MP are restored (per-tick, self-only, unrelated to the protection field, for a total of 20% of each by the time it expires).
Cannot be used with any other area-creating actions (meaning, basically, overwrites Salted Earth and vice versa; this seems to be a limitation shared by any class that can put down multiple fields).

That way it retains the self-heal and MP gain that the skill currently has, but makes them more reliable, and useful in every fight, not just those with adds.
It gives DRK a party mitigation skill - and creates some symmetry between the tanks: Warrior has a party barrier, Dark Knight would have a party mitigation field, and Paladin would have both a party barrier and a party mitigation field.
And, if party mitigation isn't especially necessary/useful in a given fight, it also functions as a sorely-needed personal mitigation tool to flesh out DRK's anemic Dark Mind/Shadow Wall repertoire.

[Reynhart]

Isn't that kind of double-dipping? Like, you already can't go below one, then the zombie creates an additional HP pool to take hits for you for 10 sec?

No. As I said, the Zombie is an enemy. You (the party) have to kill it before the timer runs out.

[Chrono_Rising]

I'm a bit late to this but I wanted to add my two cents.

Warrior in deliverance is definitely not squishier than the other two tanks, and in no way depends on the other two tanks utility to effectively main tank. They have a higher up time on all of their mitigation, except rampart obviously, and have an additional cooldown to boot because their "on demand" mitigation is tank stance locked.

Let's first recognize that the "main tank/off tank" meta is really behind the times, double your cool down pool and tank swap frequently, even when not necessary. This provides the healers with more time to join in on fights than having one tank constantly smashed in the face without mitigation with the exception of tank busters. You'll find yourself swapping once every few minutes and you'll find your cool downs come back while you are not actively tanking so when you swap back your full kit is ready.

Second, the swap mentality has not become a big enough thing yet, but there are a few factors in why we don't see many warrior's main tanking fights from start to finish.

1. Persistent concept that warriors are off tanks for damage and are squishier than paladin and dark knight as main tank. An effective warrior will mitigate as much or more on average as any other tank, and they will lose little personal dps in either role.

2. Paladin gains damage from main tanking. Shield swipe is 150 potency oGCD on a 15 second recast but it requires the paladin to block attacks to activate it. In a Paladin/Warrior comp paladin should want to be getting hit more than not.

3. Dark Knight offers more to the party in a main tank role than in an off tank role. If you have a dark knight in an off tank role spamming the blackest night on a warrior main tank then you might as well switch the warrior and dark knight and have them spam TBN on themselves and double the amount mitigated. Since dark knights have a lower expected dps than warriors and paladins; if someone is going to have to "maybe" go into emergency tank stance, that person should probably be the dark knight since they are doing less damage anyway. This shoves Dark Knight into a main tank role.

The entire reason we don't see warrior's main tanking as much is that warrior's do not gain much from being in the main tank role. Technically they lose some vengeance counter attacks, but this doesn't come close to a paladin losing their shield swipe procs. It has absolutely nothing to do with how well warrior mitigates damage.

[Aana]

I do think a combination of that, and tacking a heal on TBN break might be sufficient. In LD you could shield yourself from a bit of damage while the healer starts healing, then it breaks and boosts your HP up on top of the SS. Or in the situations above, pop SS and shield yourself for the extra heal. I think it would put drk in a lot better shape in the self-heal dept.

Its a lot simpler than that. "Walking dead heal to 100% requirement now includes shields". TBN now helps patch you up and would make it a little easier on the 'shield' healer if adlo/every other shield/etc also counted.