Tank dps harrasment

[Nedkel]

Spin on your heel if you get called for low dps.

They will think about it twice when they had to wait 10-20 minutes more for another tank.
You should not care, you get the instant queue times even at 3 AM at night, why bother with lesser beings problems rotfl. You do higher dmg as a tank only if you feel like it, not because you have to, who will force you? A dps with 1 hour long queue time? Dont be joking.
If you keep the aggro, pull and position well, there is nothing you should be worried about.
You could just stand there doing nothing but taking it and watching pewdiepie new youtube video, you are privileged one.

[Shurrikhan]

Spin on your heel if you get called for low dps.

They will think about it twice when they had to wait 10-20 minutes more for another tank.
You should not care, you get the instant queue times even at 3 AM at night, why bother with lesser beings problems rotfl. You do higher dmg as a tank only if you feel like it, not because you have to, who will force you? A dps with 1 hour long queue time? Dont be joking.
If you keep the aggro, pull and position well, there is nothing you should be worried about.
You could just stand there doing nothing but taking it and watching pewdiepie new youtube video, you are privileged one.

I've yet to wait for more than 12 minutes since Stormblood was released. It's not the general queue that's going to afford a tank's sense of entitlement. It's the in-progress filter. Granted, that's frequently faster than the general queue, as plenty of tanks do want their quick daily bonus when another tank can't make himself a noticeable benefit to his party. It's just less consistent.

Even with in-progress replacements being inconsistent, though, I'd still rather take my chances and attempt to replace a bad tank at the start of the dungeon. I only lose some positional damage and healer DPS, but have the chance of again being able to mass-pull again after the 2nd or 3rd boss. It usually saves time. If a tank can't bother to learn more than enmity-stack and CD-lessly meat-shield, and over-cautiously even at that, over the course of 40 to 70 levels, why should I bother sacrificing my time on their behalf?

[Kazrah]

If a tank can't bother to learn more than enmity-stack and CD-lessly meat-shield, and over-cautiously even at that, over the course of 40 to 70 levels, why should I bother sacrificing my time on their behalf?

Actually one of the reasons why I picked up playing a tank was because of too many encounters of the exact opposite: tanks who over-obsess on damage output and having no clue how to actually do their job partly because they're mass pulling like idiots thinking that everything will die quicker when it's far more efficient to pull a couple of packs so the healer has more breathing room to deal damage.

Playing a DPS or a healer though, I'd much rather have the overcautious tank rather than having to deal with another "tanky DPS", but probably because I have patience knowing that they're most likely still new to the role in a party setting, which is possible even at highest levels.

[Aylis]

Playing a DPS or a healer though, I'd much rather have the overcautious tank rather than having to deal with another "tanky DPS", but probably because I have patience knowing that they're most likely still new to the role in a party setting, which is possible even at highest levels.

Speaking as a healer main, I VERY much prefer the overcautious tank, weither they're new to tanking or old to it. I'm content with a dungeon taking a little extra longer vs panic healing, risking wipes, squabbling and a dungeon taking far longer then it would have taken in going the slow and steady pace. This isn't an action combat MMO by far where charging and going full bore is possible with very few risks.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

This..so much this.

I've been doing roulette as a Red Mage as i got fed up at being yelled at as a tank who didn't do "balls to the wall pulling" and as a White Mage who would end up needing to take a shower after a dungeon because the tank insisted on "balls to the wall" pulling...its just stupid.

Heck even yesterday in Kugane the guy wanted to pull all the way to the boss and do a LB..which did crap for nothing damage because well..it's not designed for that...people get really stupid idea's in their heads..its sad. I can get doing a pair of pulls etc....but this speed running mindset is getting foolish beyond all reason.

[Taika]

As a healer, I prefer tanks pulling the biggest possible pulls they believe they and their group can handle. For a normal party where tank uses cooldowns, this means max pulls in most content (not leveling dungeons of course, but level 50/60/70 stuff). Then if it turns out the party is incapable of handling those (lower than standard DPS, tank has issues with managing cooldowns or whatever), the tank should tone down a bit unless the group is up for stepping up their game.

[Shurrikhan]

Actually one of the reasons why I picked up playing a tank was because of too many encounters of the exact opposite: tanks who over-obsess on damage output and having no clue how to actually do their job partly because they're mass pulling like idiots thinking that everything will die quicker when it's far more efficient to pull a couple of packs so the healer has more breathing room to deal damage.

Playing a DPS or a healer though, I'd much rather have the overcautious tank rather than having to deal with another "tanky DPS", but probably because I have patience knowing that they're most likely still new to the role in a party setting, which is possible even at highest levels.

Even as someone who's mained tanks and healers previously, I greatly prefer someone who knows exactly what they can output and intake, and I find that be far more often true of those who regularly mass pull and stance-dance than those who will not. As a healer I often find such players easier to heal because that play is at least predictable in its being more optimized, even if the margin of error is faintly less (still generally less than 4 GCDs of raw healing over any pull in which the DPS, too, are competent).

Be it as a tank or healer, I track their cooldowns, and I expect them to track at the least the key portions of mine, but with that tracking comes certain expectations according to what is optimal generally and for the specific instance. And I find that overcautious tanks will often continually leave certain abilities on reserve for emergencies despite their animation-based delays being too long to actually serve in that capacity; when I expect them to actually make use of the damn skill, optimally and conventionally, they don't, and only then do I run into actual difficulty.

[Aylis]

Snip

Totally know that feeling >_< trying to speedrun in roulette for me always ended up in me wanting to flip a table. My friends have had similar experiences too. A while back ago we did a dungeon who's name escapes me. It was nice and enjoyable when we did it together. They told me they grew to hate the place in roulette cos it would turn them all into giant stressballs due to the pull everything up to the boss thing.

[MoroMurasaki]

As a healer, I prefer tanks pulling the biggest possible pulls they believe they and their group can handle.

Very much this.


It takes a whole party for a large pull to go well. The DPS need to be putting out reasonable damage and know when to LB if appropriate too, many times I've had a tank do a full pull (Kugane's second to final boss comes to mind, as well as the full run after the second boss in Hell's Lid) where we had a full LB bar and a caster in the group and that caster didn't LB the adds causing problems down the line because the adds didn't die in the expected time.

In a dungeon I'd argue a tank's dps is the least important overall and definitely not worth making waves over. If he's tanking well, specifically on large pulls, that's doing far more to speed things up than him stance dancing a bit more on those pulls.

All that aside though when you do have a tank able to do that part of his job well and also contribute good dps it's a wonderful thing. Doing a huge pull and having dps do their jobs while I spam Holy and a WAR burns through Decimate during the Holy stun window is perhaps the most satisfying thing that can happen in a dungeon.

[wildbill]

I had this DRG one night ask me why in the world was I doing "safe pulls"... I was WAR. He used more colorful language when asking me that question of course. Let's just say my first impression of him was that he wasn't a very polite person.

I said to him that when we were chatting in the beginning, two players in our party said it was there first time here. So, I thought it would be wise to take it easy and tank it right. Piece by piece. Allowing them to see just how the instance unfolds.

He disagreed and had some words for what he had thought of all of that and went on ahead pulling everything in front of us. He died, the healer died, the other DPS died, and then I died. It turned into a debacle as I am sure you can understand.

This is what happens when you do not have a work together team-like attitude. I mean, your party is a team. Your goal is to survive the instance. When it is somebody's first time, you should want to help them ENJOY the instance. Not yell at them for it being their first time.

I personally, more often than not, have such a GOOD TIME with players who have never been through the instance before. I can just feel the excitement they're feeling while remembering what I felt the first time I went through it.

This example just shows you that your job as a tank is to make your way through the instance keeping everything off of everyone. You want that hit pool high, you want that armor to be tough, and you want to be healed quickly and easily. You kind of have to learn how to gauge your party in order to determine if you can pump out a little more DPS and be safe, or if you should focus your time on enmity and defense.

For most of the instances I feel that enmity and defense take massive priority over DPS.

Learning when to bust into DPS mode and when not to is what makes a great tank great! But this only comes from experience. Experience obtained through lots of practice and refinement. I am sure that you will be a great tank if you aren’t already.

If anyone behaves in an unpleasant or unfair way towards you, you don’t have to listen. You’re the tank! Sticks and stones may break my bones but Titan will never hurt me! LOL!