Tank dps harrasment

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I do not know what it looks like on Primal, but on Aether, I've seen more 2-3 mob pulls than I have with 'big' pulls. Depending on the dungeon, 3 mobs aren't really big pulls, and some places are very difficult to even get a massive pull on and survive consistently. Again, I will be patient with DPS pulling for me twice, maybe a third time if I'm feeling generous. But unless the healer consents, I will not pull anymore than I already do and if DPS continue to pull like this (by this point, I will have spoken up), then I will not take any aggro. They do it again, they're getting shirked. If they again pull ahead of me, I'm vote-kicking.

Mayhap we need more than what you've posted to determine what this standard is, because honestly, it sounds like it's what you've personally experienced, not what the overall community states is the actual standard.

Also, for your reply above, 2 mobs is not wall to wall. Now you're just fitting terms to fill out your argument.

I am also on Aether and if I'm not the tank doing massive pulls, someone else usually does. Personally, I categorize pulls as follows:

"I am sooooo booooored" pulls: Singular packs.
"Standard" big pulls: 5-9 mobs
"Can't stop; won't stop. There's nothing to slow me down!!!!" pulls: The entire room

Naturally, the last one is most entertaining.

For a specific example, I'll use Ala Mhigo. The standard pull after the first boss is to grab the first two packs of Magitek Gorillas and burn them down before proceeding. The insane pull is running them into the courtyard, picking up the doges and tagging that final Magitek by the cannon. Having spammed Ala Mhigo for my mount, I usually see the standard affair, though that crazy pull happened often enough. I virtually never saw single packs.

[Shurrikhan]

I do not know what it looks like on Primal, but on Aether, I've seen more 2-3 mob pulls than I have with 'big' pulls. Depending on the dungeon, 3 mobs aren't really big pulls, and some places are very difficult to even get a massive pull on and survive consistently. Again, I will be patient with DPS pulling for me twice, maybe a third time if I'm feeling generous. But unless the healer consents, I will not pull anymore than I already do and if DPS continue to pull like this (by this point, I will have spoken up), then I will not take any aggro. They do it again, they're getting shirked. If they again pull ahead of me, I'm vote-kicking.

Aether resident here. I've yet to see an Expert Roulette without mass pulls where the tank wasn't quickly vote-kicked and replaced within a couple minutes while the DPS continued just as quickly tanking on their own in the meantime.

On the other hand, I've not once seen a DPS vote-kicked for early pulling, and rarely even a warning given if their resources depend on it and the mobs were drawn through the tank for ease of collection and Diversion was used if more than a couple GCDs were spent. That's on the tank at that point, generally by the tank's own admission.

[Awha]

Tanks getting kicked for not doing enough damage..... In an Expert dungeon? I call bullsh~..

While not the reason I state when a I initiate the kick, if we are 15 minutes into the dungeon and things are going a tad slow for my taste be it due to pull size or a members dps being to low. I do not keep a record though I would say about half of the vote goes through, if not so be it. If the vote fails and I am bothered by the pace normally I will just leave.

I personally do not think I am the only impatient ass hat playing this game. So I am sure other players do get kicked for their play no matter the role.

[winsock]

So many headaches could be solved with a simple "How does everyone want to do this?"

What you're really saying:
So many headaches could be solved if people just did what I want.

Some already spent the day pushing themselves and just want a calm wind down of the night, that's okay.
Some don't care about pushing themselves and just want tomes and a little loot, that's okay.
Some maybe new/newish and getting a feel of the place, that's okay.

I should be able to expect a certain minimum from a healer right? They can't just go AFK because they're winding down and expect 3 ppl to clear it for them.
What do you think we should be allowed to expect at a minimum?

At a minimum, I expect a maximum of cure II spam. This is enough for nearly all wall-to-wall pulls. If they fail to meet this maximum I request it. If they aren't even willing put in the effort required to press 1 button repeatedly, they shouldn't have queued IMO.

[KaivaC]

/shrug

I can see when I'm losing an argument. Very well...my own definition of what I see as a standard pull is obviously different. I can admit when I lose an argument. My point still remains on 'DPS pulling for the tank'.

(On that note, I just noticed my signature just up and completely disappeared. Why?)

[Altena]

/shrug

I can see when I'm losing an argument. Very well...my own definition of what I see as a standard pull is obviously different. I can admit when I lose an argument. My point still remains on 'DPS pulling for the tank'.

I was also curious about the differing experiences so I asked Novice Network what they see a majority of the time when they queue for DR:Ex on anything except tank and their result was similar to mine. Not rubbing it in, just saying I wanted to find out if my experience was unique.

(On that note, I just noticed my signature just up and completely disappeared. Why?)

Sometimes when you edit your post quickly, the signature gets removed. It's a weird forum bug that's been around for ages.

[KaivaC]

I was also curious about the differing experiences so I asked Novice Network what they see a majority of the time when they queue for DR:Ex on anything except tank and their result was similar to mine. Not rubbing it in, just saying I wanted to find out if my experience was unique.



Sometimes when you edit your post quickly, the signature gets removed. It's a weird forum bug that's been around for ages.

It hasn't shown up in a good chunk of my posts lately, even before I start making edits. It's weird...but nothing that I'm too worried about...needed to update my profile anyhow.

I don't think you're rubbing it in. I just have a losing argument, is all.

[Fhaerron]

So, this thread was buried.

What was the reason for it to come back?

[Sida]

The more annoying thing, regarding voting majorities, is that in alliance you only need to have group of 5 to have "voting security" against the 19 others, because only one party takes part into the vote kick. I have had such troll groups which destroy the run for the whole alliance and can't be got rid of.

[HyoMinPark]

This is the exact attitude that I am referring to that I feel like I deal with whenever I que for a simple dungeon now days. Why is THIS acceptable?

It’s not, and people don’t care about performance in dungeons as long as you are doing what you are required to do: as a tank, hold hate, don’t cleave the party, and use your cooldowns. People that expect orange-tier DPS in dungeons are ridiculous. The content doesn’t call for any of that; it’s casual content. As long as the run goes smoothly and ends relatively quickly (sub-30 minutes I would say would be the general consensus for a “quick run” for a leveling dungeon, sub-20 for expert dungeons), no one cares about things like DPS in dungeons. The people that do aren’t worth listening to.

The only place where party or raid DPS matters is Ex trials and Savage. And even then, the checks aren’t tight enough to demand 99th percentile performance from everyone. As long as you are doing your best and contributing, that’s all that matters. Maybe some people get uppity about it, but they’re not the majority. I don’t like carrying players, but as long as the tanks are dying to stupid stuff and are holding hate, I generally don’t care if they drop stance or not. I certainly encourage it if they want to improve their personal DPS, or contribute more to rDPS, but I don’t make a big deal out of it if they don’t. There’s no reason to.

Only in statics would people probably push to tank the majority of a raid or trial in DPS stance. But PF =/= static. If you end up in a group that wants you to do stuff you don’t want to do, just leave and join another. Or make your own. Your PF, your rules.