Tank dps harrasment

[Zumi]

If I do something like Shinryu in PF I tank in shield oath because I don't know if a random healer can handle it if I used sword oath. Nobody has ever said a thing to me about tanking in shield oath. I think you just had random group where someone complained about it.

[Arkturius]

honestly i thought this was bait and just rolled with it kek

[Gemina]

Just to chime in, I've personally witnessed quite a few tanks get harassed in dungeons for not dropping tank stance. It's one of things that kept me away from tanking for a very long time, even though I always wanted to do it. Not that it was my intent to not try and contribute to DPS, but because I find it completely ridiculous for such expectations to exist in a dungeon, and I've already had so many tiring days defending the healer side of this topic. There should be no question that players that carry these high expectations exist in all content, and there are actually quite a few of them from my experience.

I find that tank play is greatly taken for granted in this game. A tank who is holding agro is doing a good job, because when they hold agro it makes things easier for everyone else. DO NOT take that for playing optimally. That is not what I mean. When you get a lousy tank, or your tank dies, we all know how much more difficult this makes the run, if not a full on wipe. That madness is all because nothing is casting a net around all the mob enmity.

Community is already short on tanks, and we're going to chastise them for not dropping tank stance, or IOW, flame them for doing their job? Just doesn't add up. It is quite simple though, if you don't like the way your tank is tanking in a dungeon, just ask to be vote dismissed and hop right back in the queue. It's totally win/win since the tank is a hindrance to your playstyle, and you are a hindrance to their growth.

[Arkturius]

Let's cut the BS. "Putting in effort" means doing YOUR job well enough to get things done. Don't try to foist this MLG-speak on people who don't give a toss about raids or raiders. This tank did her job and did it well, and some jacka$$ decides cut a promo on her for not being a tryhard. That garbage is why players have a negative attitude toward raiders, period.

This is stupid also just force people to be stuck in tutorial mode until they learn how to play jobs or gate content behind sss dummies lazy bad player problems solved

[ThickishGerm]

It's all well and good to be comfortable with your play style and not want others to impose their play style on you. On the other hand those other players can choose to not have your in their party, as in the OP's party finder example, and you then be denied a spot on that basis.

Can't have one condition without the other.

[Arkturius]

IMO if you have friends to queue with that's a reason to play DPS, because otherwise you'll be dealing with awful queue times on most things.

I solo queue as dps all the time its just more incentive to not be horrible at this game

[BorisDaBlade]

I want to hear from end game healers on dropping tank stance. Does it put extra stress on you in DF or PF? Do you expect the tank to dps stance and are prepared for it healing wise with zero communication? Would you rather the tank stay in tank stance?

I’ve only dabbled in shinex and that damage is real.

[MoroMurasaki]

I want to hear from end game healers on dropping tank stance. Does it put extra stress on you in DF or PF? Do you expect the tank to dps stance and are prepared for it healing wise with zero communication? Would you rather the tank stay in tank stance?

I’ve only dabbled in shinex and that damage is real.

The only clears I have on Shinryu EX involve both tanks dropping stance whenever they aren't MT and for a good portion of the time that they are MT.

In any kind of primarily single target scenario a tank can outDPS a healer more often than not, even a WHM who can do some crazy burst if you line things up right. It makes sense that healers take on the big chunk of the support there and let the tanks DPS.

Personally this thread doesn't have much to do with endgame to me. If I had a pugtank in an EX trial sitting in tank stance with a huge threat lead I would say something and feel justified doing so because of the level of that content. This thread is primarily about dungeons which don't really have any kind of enrage to beat.

All that aside I'm seeing this "do your primary job and that alone is good enough" pop up.

No. A RDM spamming Jolt is not acceptable. A PLD holding hate with only Flash is not acceptable. A healer never DPSing is not acceptable. It's lazy. You have an entire kit of abilities here and I can tell you that using the vast majority of them (sorry Repose and Fluid Aura) is the key to a swift and effective victory. A tank stance dancing is no different. While I would advocate for a less kick-happy mentality when dealing with someone playing their job poorly I don't see anything wrong with giving some advice and expecting to see them at least try. If that advice prompts a hostile response well then I'm not voting to kick a bad tank just an oversensitive jerk.

Let's cut the BS. "Putting in effort" means doing YOUR job well enough to get things done. Don't try to foist this MLG-speak on people who don't give a toss about raids or raiders. This tank did her job and did it well, and some jacka$$ decides cut a promo on her for not being a tryhard. That garbage is why players have a negative attitude toward raiders, period.

I mean this diversion is so good I almost wish it was a cross ro- oh, yeah.

I'm a bad SAM.

Jokes aside though this misses the point so hard you seem to have an accuracy down debuff. But wait! I actually slotted Esuna!

Virtually none of the posts in this thread advocate for the OP to be kicked based on her lack of stance dancing. Many of us are healer mains who understand how hard stance dancing is - you think it's hard as a tank? Try Cleric, where at 60 my Cure 2 could crit for like 2k. Many a tank has been Cleric Stance murdered.

The point is that you have to try. Not even try hard (those are actually two separate words, not sure you knew - also a verb and an adjective, no nouns here) just try. I've coaxed many a baby tank through dropping stance on bosses and seen them outdps me thanks to this handy crystal ball a friend sometimes carries around. The OP could easily be another one if she's on Aether. Between CD rotation, immunities and a little help from a competent healer you don't have to be a "raider" to stance dance as a tank anymore.

Also what is your beef with raiders? I mean, not to derail this topic further but you seem to have a real grudge. There is nothing wrong with being hardcore. There is nothing wrong with being casual. Just like the real world though people who are better at things are going to try to help people who aren't. I agree kicking them is not helping but neither is saying a tank pulling down almost no dps is " doing their job well"...

[Paladinleeds]

The OP could easily be another one if she's on Aether. Between CD rotation, immunities and a little help from a competent healer you don't have to be a "raider" to stance dance as a tank anymore.

When I'm with PUG healers, I'm very cautious. That being said, I just came out of an Expert roulette as PLD with a WHM healer friend. in Ala Mhigo. Even managed to pull off the penta-pull (butt clenching moments aplenty, with a DRG/MCH DPS, might not have been the best idea but whatever), and I spent more time in Sword Oath than Shield Oath in bosses. I did 1 or 2 enmity combos, then Sword Oath and pushing out DPS. That's how I am, I'm cautious around people I haven't built that trust with, but once the trust is there, I'm going to go balls against the wall. So what would your tips be for overcoming the cautiousness around PUG healers (and their wildly varying skill levels)?

[Xerek]

So what would your tips be for overcoming the cautiousness around PUG healers (and their wildly varying skill levels)?

Communication and experimentation. At the start, ask what your healer is comfortable with. If they're convinced they can keep up, go for it. If the healer was wrong, it could be ugly, but really, what is the worst-case scenario? You wipe. In a dungeon that's a quick respawn and regroup. Ask the healer what went wrong and then either try again full-bore or scale it back some. It really doesn't risk much to trust your healer's self-appraisal, and the rewards if it does work are far more then worth it.