After Rival Wings, do you want more modes or new maps for existing modes?

[Ultimatecalibur]

Yes, but:

"People only queue for Shatter because people only queue for Shatter." With a community effort, the same could be said for any mode.
People are tired of Shatter, even some of the new players.

People only queue for Shatter because their is no "real" reason (while fun is a good reason it isn't going to get 24 or 72 players to queue for one mode when another has a prize) for casual players to queue for the other two modes and changing how Shatter is categorized won't change that.

The only mount that can't be gotten from the other modes is the white ADS

Which is why it is more rewarding. Mounts beat Glamour gear which beat Titles for getting casual players to queue for content.

If Frontlines continues to just be Shatter only, there's the possibility that Rival Wings could "kill" it off.

Which doesn't mean I want to see Frontlines die or that I don't want new reasons to queue for Secure and/or Seize.

Seal Rock (Seize) IS the better mode, even if it's not the newest.

72-man Seal Rock (Seize) isn't really any better than 72-man Field of Glory (Shatter). Both of them tend to result in 3 ~24 person zergs running around after randomly activating objectives.

Sealed Rock's randomness does a really good job hiding the modes faults.

Borderlands Ruins(Secure) was pretty much the only one of the modes that really functioned as a 24v24v24 competition due to the objectives forcing a 3 party split.

I disagree with both of these points. Queue'ing late at night or in the morning I get more Seize and Secure than I do shatter.

Those times are more likely to have people queuing Roulette than any specific mode.

The main reason shatter pops is it is easy to bot.

Its not really easier to bot than the other two modes (which had bots in them even before Shatter was added) that make them bot Shatter, it was the addition of PvE XP that made it very lucrative to bot Frontlines that made Frontlines in 4.0 and 4.1 so full of them. If more people were playing another mode instead of Shatter the bots would be there.

You can queue for any of the 3 frontlines and get 4 mounts (White ADS excluded), titles and glamour. There is only one title associate to Shatter and only one Mount (white ADS). I don't see many people going for the Shatter title, if anything they want Slaughterhouse or Hand of Mercy which is much more obtainable in Seize.

You need to check the rewards again. These are the "reasons" to chose each mode.

The benefits you get from Secure that you can't get from other modes are:

• Drone Sniper title (100 Drone kills)
• Heliodrome Hero title (20 Probe kills, only 1 spawns in each 72 person match)

The benefits you get from Seize that you can't get from other modes are:

• Field Commander's 5 piece glamour gear set (100 Seal Rock victories)
• Keeper of Knowledge title (Personally occupy 300 tomeliths)

The benefits you get from Shatter that you can't get from other modes are:

• White ADS (100 Field of Glory Victories)
• Knight of Glory title (300 Field of Glory Victories)

Cutting out the titles make Secure non-rewarding and leave the competition between Seize's glamour set and Shatter's mount. The mount is going to win more players than the glamour set.

[Shurrikhan]

Yes, but:

"People only queue for Shatter because people only queue for Shatter." With a community effort, the same could be said for any mode.

Funny how that works.

I for one would like to be able to play Feast again.

Sitting at 408 minutes into queue, at the moment.

Will probably try out Secure tomorrow while writing papers. By which I may mean try out waiting for it and nothing more. Hopefully not. Allegedly they do at least still exist.
They both say over 30 minutes, though, and these are peak hours here....

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I had a secure match earlier tonight. A nice little random surprise from the roulette. I've also coordinated 2 Seal Rock weekends in the past. If people actively only queued for one mode over another, and told their friends to or formed parties to do so and they followed through, it'd happen.

The Feast? End of the season. No rank decay. No one's going to risk their rating, and with the custom match system now, the Aether community is pretty well set to offer themselves the experience SE's been denying them since 3.5: high level, coordinated team play. WITH. CHAT.

I too would love to enjoy unranked 4v4, but as no one's queueing, no one's queueing. Maybe that's a clear sign SE was a bit late to deliver something that really should've been there from day one, or perhaps custom matches - and all the freedom they offer from both blanket restrictions and the negative aspects people would have you believe are standard to the Feast/PvP in general - are just better than the no-fun-allowed, solo queue-only crap shoot they've turned Ranked and Unranked Feast into?

People only queue for Shatter because their is no "real" reason (while fun is a good reason it isn't going to get 24 or 72 players to queue for one mode when another has a prize) for casual players to queue for the other two modes and changing how Shatter is categorized won't change that. . . Which is why it is more rewarding. Mounts beat Glamour gear which beat Titles for getting casual players to queue for content. . . 72-man Seal Rock (Seize) isn't really any better than 72-man Field of Glory (Shatter). Both of them tend to result in 3 ~24 person zergs running around after randomly activating objectives. . . Sealed Rock's randomness does a really good job hiding the modes faults.

A few things I wanted to address all over this post:

1. Why must it all appeal to casual players? Sure, it is important, but you make it sound like if casuals won't like it, it's not worth doing. Casuals generally don't like or do Extreme trials, so no point to queue for those, right? Ultimate Coil exists. . .

2. Shatter, as I said before plays like a mix of Secure and Seize, and a very poor one. The biggest problem? Shatter practically rewards passive play where the other two do not. Drones shoot back, Seal Rock nodes must be successfully interacted with, THEN defended. Ice? Just hit it. People will ignore someone at 10% HP for that damn ice.

I had a match earlier tonight where someone literally told the team to go to the ice at a time where it meant turning our backs to the attacking team and putting ourselves in a pincer with the other team that was already there. Then AGAIN at the end of the match when we'd literally pushed one team out of first place, and were in a prime position to reduce the other teams points (they were 70 points from a win; large ice wouldn't break fast enough to secure a win), someone called for the ice and that did it.

3. The only randomness of Seize is the rank of the node. The locations are fixed, as are ice locations in Shatter. But the activations of the ice are just as random. Sometimes a team gets 2 near their base from the start. Sometimes all the small ones activate at the start. Seize is better, again in that you don't know which will activate, nor what rank it'll be. No bases to afk, excuse me, "guard" on, and camping a node before it spawns is all but impossible because what if it's a B rank, and the one you didn't go to is an S? Maybe an A pops up closest to you at the start? Maybe an A and an S pop up near the end, and you can win by going for the A and letting the other 2 teams fight over the S because you have the lead? Most importantly, it doesn't award passive play. If you're not actively trying to capture a node or reduce enemy points, there are no base ticks to win off of. There's no objective to go and tunnel on and get points without ever attacking or being attacked by another player. Capturing is only half of scoring. Defending your node is where the mode shines over Shatter.

Many people still don't know that if you wipe out a team at a large ice, then let it reset, you can take full points from it, even if it was at 1%. And a full 300 from large ice is quite significant. Works on small ice too. Doesn't work in Seize. You want it, you fight for it, or fight to keep it. That's not to say Seize didn't have its faults, but ask anyone who actively played both before 4.0, and the larger majority much prefer Seize over Shatter.

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

I queued purely Seize and Secure last week, only queued roulette for daily. Total 18 matches, so that's possible 11 seize/week (for some reason secure doesn't count). Most of them either weekends or right after weekly reset. Queue individually best way you get it, the roulette is pretty much broken defaulting to Shatter.

[OskarXCI]

Secure is not Capture the Flag. It is a King of the Hill style mode. You have 3 hills with optional resources from the nodes/kills.

I don't know my game types apparently. If Secure is King of the Hill, then what is Seize?

[Gravton]

King of the hill - random spawn locations at random times that a team has to take and defend until the location changes
Domination - fixed locations that a team takes and defends
Capture the flag - item at each teams base that must be stolen by the enemy team and carried to their base.

[Wintersandman]

The benefits you get from Secure that you can't get from other modes are:

• Drone Sniper title (100 Drone kills)
• Heliodrome Hero title (20 Probe kills, only 1 spawns in each 72 person match)

The benefits you get from Seize that you can't get from other modes are:

• Field Commander's 5 piece glamour gear set (100 Seal Rock victories)
• Keeper of Knowledge title (Personally occupy 300 tomeliths)

The benefits you get from Shatter that you can't get from other modes are:

• White ADS (100 Field of Glory Victories)
• Knight of Glory title (300 Field of Glory Victories)

Cutting out the titles make Secure non-rewarding and leave the competition between Seize's glamour set and Shatter's mount. The mount is going to win more players than the glamour set.

You forget Black ADS from any mode, and FC mount from any mode, and Garo Mounts from any mode. Slaughterhouse and Hand of Mercy from any mode. So check your achievements again.

Those times are more likely to have people queuing Roulette than any specific mode.

Again I disagree. The people queue'ing at these times aren't doing roulette they are typically religious PVP'ers. They are the ones forcing the pop. I play enough PvP I know who the regulars are.

I don't know my game types apparently. If Secure is King of the Hill, then what is Seize?

Seize is another King of the Hill with random spawn points. Or per Gravton's definition it would be Domination.

[RiyahArp]

SE's default mode is to copy what works, so I'd bet the next mode would be survival, something like Playerunknown's Battlegrounds.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

And make players have to actually fight each other? :O

Oh. Right. We called it Slaughter before. And they unceremoniously deleted it.

[Wintersandman]

snip

I just have to say I wish we were on the same data center. I would love to PvP with you.