Streamlining Warrior Stances

[elfolampo]

I think the Warrior stances might be made simpler.

My problem with them currently is that you have to use two different commands to change stances, because there's three states once you get Deliverance:

1)Normal

2)Defiance

3)Deliverance

But for all practical situations, once you have Deliverance you don't really need to be in normal stance anymore: Deliverance has no downside, adds 5% damage, and most importantly, doesn't reset your gauge to zero.

Now, if Warrior didn't gain Deliverance and its skills after the Defiance skills, there wouldn't be a problem: just make the DPS position the basic stance, the DPS actions the basic ones, and make them turn into different skills during Defiance. In fact, since PVP doesn't have such a problem, PVP Warrior is already designed like that. Only one button to switch between stance and no stance, and no accidental gauge dropping if you press the wrong one.

I think it's definitely possible to streamline the normal Warrior like that, but which changes would have to be done to skill acquisition to make it like that?

Skill acquired after level 52, obviously, wouldn't have to change much: in fact, at level 52, we could have Deliverance be a trait that gives you a 5% passive boost to damage when not using Defiance.

The core problem are Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone, and Unchained.

For Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone is simple enough to keep a setup similar to the current one:

Drop Fell Cleave to level 35 with a potency of 300, make it turn into Inner Beast when under Defiance, and make a trait at level 54 to give it an extra 200 potency.

Similarly, have Decimate at level 45, make it turn into Steel Cyclone when under Defiance, and trait it at 60 to give the extra 80 potency.

Unchained is a bit more complicated, I guess, since it has no overlapping effect with Inner Release. It would be possible however to have Inner Release at 50 with the status-nullify effects, make it turn into Unchained during Defiance, and add the Beast Gauge reduction effect at 70 as a trait.

These changes would boost Warrior a bit at lower levels (mainly between 35 and 54), but let's be honest, it's way outdated content, and there's been much greater balance changes in the past few months. Also let's be honest, playing stanceless Warrior until level 50 is a drag, it's literally just doing the same combos over and over without a gauge. Plus I'm pretty sure it's lost some DPS with the change to stat weights.

The benefits would be: no more useless stanceless position, one less button needed, no more accidents during stance change, not having to do many adjustments to your playstyle when playing in low level content, and no change at all in the overall class balance at level 70.

[Reynhart]

Drop Fell Cleave to level 35 with a potency of 300, make it turn into Inner Beast when under Defiance, and make a trait at level 54 to give it an extra 200 potency.

Personally, I think Fell Cleave could stay as it is, because as you said, 35-54 is now old content. What I would do, however, is remove Inner Beast and just make Fell Cleave absorbs HP and reduce damage taken when used under Defiance, but still be affected by the damage penalty.

[DaulBan]

This is one of those 'changes for the sake of changing' things that I'm kinda 'eh' about. Sure, Deliverance is seen as the default stance, and there is no legitimate reason to not have a stance on at all times aside from level 50, but I personally don't think that removing deliverance really does much for the job aside from just saying you got rid of the stance.

[Reynhart]

Less buttons to press. I think that's also the reason why the removed the two poisons from NIN.

[elfolampo]

This is one of those 'changes for the sake of changing' things that I'm kinda 'eh' about. Sure, Deliverance is seen as the default stance, and there is no legitimate reason to not have a stance on at all times aside from level 50, but I personally don't think that removing deliverance really does much for the job aside from just saying you got rid of the stance.

The whole point it's that it's a quality of life change, rather than a balance one. It might not do much for the job per se, but it makes things simpler for the players. From a design standpoint, too, it's better to have 2 stances and 1 button than 3 stances and 2 buttons, if a stance is useless. Considering how it works in PVP, if the class was designed today, and wasn't built in successive steps over different expansions, I'm pretty sure it would already work like this or similarly.

[Reynhart]

Considering how it works in PVP, if the class was designed today, and wasn't built in successive steps over different expansions, I'm pretty sure it would already work like this or similarly.

Frankly, if macros were not slower than native GCD, they would have replaced most of my WS a long time ago so that each combo uses only one slot.

[elfolampo]

They really should give use the combo buttons as a prebuilt alternative.

[elfolampo]

Usability tweaks for Warrior were mentioned for 4.2 in the live letter, so I guess there's some hope.

[Wintersandman]

You could have Deliverance just be traited instead of a button. The same could be said about Sword Oath for PLD. No reason to not be in an oath. In PvP they don't even have deliverance and FC is part of Normal Stance.

[Shurrikhan]

The only change that I think would be at all warranted would be to either:

1. Generate Wrath (gauge) and retain Wrath previously generated with all abilities that normally generate Wrath, even when outside of Defiance / Deliverance, but limit their spending to when in Defiance / Deliverance.
- or -
2. Retain Wrath (gauge) generated previously and allow access to Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone, but without their second additional effect (mitigation, bonus enmity). Cannot generate Wrath except when in Defiance / Deliverance.

In either case it would make more sense for Deliverance to provide no bonus damage, but for all Marauder/Warrior potencies to be increased by that 5%. Deliverance gives the ability first to generate Wrath without a damage penalty, and then provides even more damage-form abilities thereafter.