Open world PvP Zone

[HelSpites]

Alrighty then, where are your posts shooting down crafting suggestions? Where are your posts complaining about new housing items being added? Where are your posts complaining about the latest raid content? Or Gold Saucer? Newest Hunts and rewards? Updates on new minions and pet battles? PotD?

I haven't made those posts because unlike pvp, that's all mostly decent content. Diadem was a mess, sure, and lord of verminion was a pretty big waste, I don't think too many people are going to fight me on either of those points, but otherwise, most of the new content they've added has been fine.

This game is chock-full of content. Chock. Full. Don't tell me you participate in every single piece of it except PvP. Complaining about resources being used on content you don't participate in is a waste of thread space and my time even thinking about a response to it.

Okay. I won't tell you. I mean, it's somewhat true, but hey, you told me not to tell you. That said, I do actually participate in pvp as well. Most of my glamour sets have a couple pvp pieces and I even have all of the garo mounts. The problem is that while grinding out an ex-primal or something for a glam piece is fun, pvping for all those things was a miserable experiece because, unless the game is built for it from the ground up, most mmo pvp, this one's included, is trash.

The glamouor pieces and the garo mounts should have all been available from something else, but hey, I shut up and grit my teeth and ground through it because complaining about it probably wouldn't get me anywhere. That said, this thread here is suggesting more of the worst content this game has to offer. I'd rather not see any more of it get made, so I'm just here expressing my thoughts on the OP's suggestion.

[Shirolumi]

pvping for all those things was a miserable experiece because, unless the game is built for it from the ground up, most mmo pvp, this one's included, is trash.

And for others like me, farming ponies and birds was a far more miserable experience than getting the PvP mounts. I like this games PvP. I get that you don't. I made the thread in the hopes that the people who play and enjoy PvP would see what could work and not work, not just say it's all bad and that we should not have it. I made it so that the devs can see what kind of things the community who loves PvP would like to see in the game.

I get that you're just here to express your thoughts on my suggestion, but since you think that PvP is trash and is the worst content the game has to offer, I don't really get the intentions of stating those thoughts except for saying that you don't want the people who enjoy something, to get more of what they enjoy.

I really do not understand. I don't particularly enjoy raiding or crafting but I don't go out of my way to enter raid threads just to say that it sucks and that it shouldn't get made anymore. If people come up with new ideas, I'd be happy for them instead. Good for them! I hope they get something that they'll enjoy. How entitled would I be, thinking that their content would take away something that could be made for me?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I haven't made those posts because unlike pvp, that's all mostly decent content. Diadem was a mess, sure, and lord of verminion was a pretty big waste, I don't think too many people are going to fight me on either of those points, but otherwise, most of the new content they've added has been fine.



Okay. I won't tell you. I mean, it's somewhat true, but hey, you told me not to tell you. That said, I do actually participate in pvp as well. Most of my glamour sets have a couple pvp pieces and I even have all of the garo mounts. The problem is that while grinding out an ex-primal or something for a glam piece is fun, pvping for all those things was a miserable experiece because, unless the game is built for it from the ground up, most mmo pvp, this one's included, is trash.

The glamouor pieces and the garo mounts should have all been available from something else, but hey, I shut up and grit my teeth and ground through it because complaining about it probably wouldn't get me anywhere. That said, this thread here is suggesting more of the worst content this game has to offer. I'd rather not see any more of it get made, so I'm just here expressing my thoughts on the OP's suggestion.

Don't try to act cute, and definitely don't try to garner sympathy. You chose to grind for it, but the glamour gear was always going to be available via Gold Saucer as well. Too bad, so sad on the mounts. The Garo creator wished for it to work that way. You don't need everything in game, but if you want it, then sometimes you've got to be ready to do content you don't enjoy. Which speaking of, I'm willing to bet that given your dislike of PvP, you made no attempt to learn anything about it, and thus had a more difficult experience. Is that it? That's hardly exclusive to PvP; if you don't learn the mechanics of a primal battle or a raid, you're not likely to get the rewards from it until you can outgear/unsync it. And even then, that's not always the case.

That said, you've made your opinion on the matter known. . . that's nice. Others who aren't crazy about the idea have at least offered their own or were willing to compromise where you simply prattle on about how you don't like PvP and don't want anymore PvP content made. . . I suppose the only person who'll be more disappointed than PvPers have been about what little content they get is you, and you're not likely to find much in the way of sympathy here with that sentiment.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So then, by that same bad logic, if Eureka's the big thing of 4.2, then if you've never enjoyed relic content, 4.2's going to be a dry experience, right? Gold Saucer's a waste if you hate minigames. I don't like Hunts or FATES. . . so those are a waste of resources too right?

I'm pretty tired of this awful misconception being thrown around. Tuesday marks the first new mode for PvP in over a year. If we want to go by category, this is the first new type of PvP in this game since 2.3. PvE content has had regular, various typese of updates during all that time. Do not, and I can't stress this enough, Do NOT even try to claim PvP takes away from anything in this game. What little is there goes lengthy stretches without updates or needed changes, or even word from devs regarding it. If they did that with PvE content, even within one single patch cycle, players would riot.

So, bluntly, what you think regarding allocation of resources is quite wrong, and you only need to look beyond what you think and see how things really are. There are other games that do plenty of things better than XIV does, but the answer isn't to tell people to just go play those games. That kind of thinking is how you kill a community, and by effect, kill a game.

[HelSpites]

So then, by that same bad logic, if Eureka's the big thing of 4.2, then if you've never enjoyed relic content, 4.2's going to be a dry experience, right? Gold Saucer's a waste if you hate minigames. I don't like Hunts or FATES. . . so those are a waste of resources too right?

I'm not sure why you're phrasing this as if it's a thing I'd disagree with. Yes, you're right. If you're someone that doesn't enjoy working on relics and they're not a thing you ever plan on doing, then 4.2 isn't going to be a good time, and sure it'd be fair to say that it's a waste of resources. Same applies to the gold saucer and hunts. If you don't like the thing, then certainly from your perspective it's a waste and you're totally free to say as much, just like I have.

Do NOT even try to claim PvP takes away from anything in this game. What little is there goes lengthy stretches without updates or needed changes, or even word from devs regarding it. If they did that with PvE content, even within one single patch cycle, players would riot.

Nope. Pvp does take resources away from other content. I said and I'll say it again and I'll keep saying it because any time anyone on the dev team works on pvp, that's work that could have been put into something else. See, here's the thing, I don't think pvp should have been in the game to begin with. It certainly wasn't in during ARR's launch and it should have stayed that way. The fact that it's in, and that it keeps getting updates and that some of the best looking gear sets are locked behind it has always been a point of iritation for me. And yes, if the devs treated pve the way they do pvp, players would throw a fit. I agree. They should. Pve is the core of this game, not the festering tumor that pvp is.

So, bluntly, what you think regarding allocation of resources is quite wrong, and you only need to look beyond what you think and see how things really are. There are other games that do plenty of things better than XIV does, but the answer isn't to tell people to just go play those games. That kind of thinking is how you kill a community, and by effect, kill a game.

Look man, I played BDO for a while. I thought it's combat system was fun and its open world was a good time, but the pve side of that game is absolutely atrocious. All there is to do at end game is fight over the same few grind spots with other, probably better geared players who will inevitbally call in their gank squad to murder you for daring to breathe the same air as them. You know what though? At no point did I ever think to go into BDO's forum and say “Hey, you know what this game needs? Instanced dungeons!” Because as much as I would like that, that's pretty clearly not the game's focus, and I'm positive the vast majority of players there would see instanced dungeons as a massive waste of resources.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I don't think pvp should have been in the game to begin with.

Now that you've said the one thing that really made any sense there, what are you even doing in this section of the forums then? You may not think it should be there, but enough people and SE thought otherwise. And yet, it impacts your gameplay experience in no way at all.

Also, you act as if SE's so small they can't have devs work on multiple things at once? If that were the case, every update to anything but MSQ diverts resources from the game's "main" content. Tell me how Rival Wings, being added halfway through this patch, somehow held back or diverted from Rabanastre? Or Ultimate Coil? Tell me how it affected Shirogane or Shinryu Ex? You know, content that made it in BEFORE it. Tell me how it affected the "Perform" feature and what it had to do with the lag issues they openly declared it was being delayed for? Tell me how almost half a year of NOT dealing with the issues of botting and exploiting in Frontlines despite massive amounts of reports is impacting the timing of 4.2? Be sure to bring something factual, and not just "I feel like. . ."

[HelSpites]

Now that you've said the one thing that really made any sense there, what are you even doing in this section of the forums then?

Was my post unclear? Do I need to clarify something? What part of my post didn't make sense? Anyways, I was waiting for a queue so I hopped around the forums. Before this I was looking at the tank section and before that, the general discussion section.

Also, you act as if SE's so small they can't have devs work on multiple things at once?... Tell me how Rival Wings, being added halfway through this patch, somehow held back or diverted from Rabanastre? Or Ultimate Coil?..."

I'd like to think my other posts would make my answer to this question pretty obvious, but, well, I don't care how many people they have. I'm sure SE has pleanty of people working on FF14, but every person working on anything pvp-related is someone that could be working on something else.

I have to say, I'm not sure what kind of answer you were expecting here. What, do you think I'm going to look through the game's credits to find every person that worked on the pvp team and say “Well, this 3d modeler could have built a piece of a dungeon's environment instead of working on those towers in rival wings.”

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Was my post unclear? Do I need to clarify something? What part of my post didn't make sense? Anyways, I was waiting for a queue so I hopped around the forums. Before this I was looking at the tank section and before that, the general discussion section.



I'd like to think my other posts would make my answer to this question pretty obvious, but, well, I don't care how many people they have. I'm sure SE has pleanty of people working on FF14, but every person working on anything pvp-related is someone that could be working on something else.

I have to say, I'm not sure what kind of answer you were expecting here. What, do you think I'm going to look through the game's credits to find every person that worked on the pvp team and say “Well, this 3d modeler could have built a piece of a dungeon's environment instead of working on those towers in rival wings.”

Oh your bias was clear and present from the first post. There's little else to say.

P.S. you didn't answer my questions. But it's okay. In not doing so, I got all the answer I need.

[Hyrist]

As much as I am normally approving of adding more options and more comments - I'm going to shoot this one down with a couple of comments that is going to sort of tip the hand of SE's perspective here.

1. Open World PvP has no objective.

2. PvP has no individual Balancing.

This is critically important.
If there is no objective, there can be no team-based balancing. If there is no team based balancing, all of their team-based gameplay they have now goes out the window. It's effectively asking Square Enix to forego their entire motif for the sake of one mode and once again completely overhauling PvP Skills to focus on individual balancing. It's not a matter of they can or should, they won't. That mode is contrary to their standard of rewarding teamplay and their attempts fostering a positive community as a result.

What you're left with, is a severely disproportionate game that relies specifically on exploiting individual or group weaknesses. If one class is in meta and the others are out, those classes have a horrid time playing in Open World.

Here's an example - Healers as they stand now.

You can see it in duels, Healers in most one on one situations can't be killed. This means if a healer engages a lone player out on the field, there's pretty much zero chance of losing. They can harass that PvP Player continually. That situation is instantly unfun for the soloist out there.

The natural escalation of that is to gank the healer, which then instantly becomes unfun for the healer, which then devolves the Open World PvP into roaming gank-squads that prey upon any individual or isolated person. Or play in groups that best exploit any disparity in individual or group play balance for the sake of winning the most often. This would make the Red Headed Stepchild (Or perhaps Red Hatted in this case? >.>) jobs even more ostracized they are now.

At least in objective based play with team based balancing, these jobs still fulfill their roles and can secure wins even against Meta picks at fair rates.

These are all conclusions based off of SE's adjustments and content habits across the board. Untill SE overturns their core tenants of gameplay for FFXIV, the discussion of can or should is irrelevant - they wont. And from my perspective, they seem too heavily invested in their policies to push away from them at this rate.

[Mirch]

I would love an open pvp zone in ffxiv but the average ffxiv player is so weak, if you just stare at him he reports you for harassment, what for a pvp zone then? "there will be griefing" "ugh you hurt my kokoro" "he attacked me i report you" "4v1 not fair" "spawnkilling me i report for different playstyle" blablabla.

Said this, I would like an open world pvp zone, ZONE.