Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[zuzu-bq]

Dying was also more punishing for a greater part of HW, having two of the three raid tiers, being Gordias and Midas, having mechanics and DPS checks punishing you if you had some deaths here and there. While Creator had almost no death punishment we then got Deltascape as Stormblood's first raid tier. On top of being a highly forgiving raid just like it's predecessor we also got the introduction of a job that can rapid fire raises, something we never had before.

Even on the fact weakness is now a bigger of a burden for damage, the combination of the removal of HP penalty plus raise mage plus forgiving raid mechanics all made this mentality that having a DPS job to raise is amazing... when it really isn't. It's just something neat for progression that RDM can abuse on. Not that but RDM's already low DPS suffers a lot from it, something mentioned at the first couple pages of this thread. RDM is a popular job, but its popularity was solidified by all of this, having a physical buff (even if it's weak) that was overhyped before it's launch and overall people wanting it since ARR.

It's not something you can fix giving a Raise for a job that has no meaning on having it like BLM. SMN is not being played because they can raise, they're being played simply by being the best mage right now. They on top of that happen to have Raise. Once you have a fight that Raising won't let you push throught it (hi Ultimate) that ability seems just to be there instead as a small extra help instead of an important part of progression like it was on Deltascape for many groups.

[Llugen]

First off, Embolden is not weak, it's just no longer as strong as Radiant Shield + Devotion, added to the fact that SMN is pretty significantly higher damage output than RDM. This needs to change, preferably by increasing Embolden either to 20% diminishing or 10% static (and expanding it to include all damage).

Secondly, yes, all of this, but this is how we've arrived at the dilemma of the thread. One of two things should happen:

1. Verraise should get a nerf as well as Resurrection on SMN to make it cost more MP and remove Dualcast from it, offering at least slightly more role balance
2. BLM is given something to compete with the two, giving much better (in my opinion) role balance


The third option, where nothing changes on this front, WILL result in BLM be shunned for progression no matter what kind of damage/quality of life increases it gets. This will undoubtedly mean that I (and hundreds of other BLM mains) will be bullied into playing RDM or possibly SMN for progression, and then after progression the hundreds of RDM mains will be pushed into playing SMN or possibly BLM (or even worse: BRD). We do not want this. Please please please hear what is being said.

[Silver-Strider]

snip

4th option, find people that don't care about meta comps and just do the content.
My static is still on Neo Progression but we made it that far with a MNK and BLM in our group (other DPS are NIN and BRD). Are there times that having another rez would have been beneficial? Absolutely, but we still pressed thru and got this far with our group as it is without complaining our class composition was the problem.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Someone please explain to him why giving RDM a TA is a bad idea. Preferably mentioning that it makes another class mandatory (NIN syndrome). To clarify 20% diminishing (Assuming it gets buffed to affect all damage) over 20 seconds is an average of 12% damage increase over the duration, which although less frequent still lasts longer and is stronger than Trick Attack. We'd end up with locked in RDM and NIN slots. While it is different it's not necessarily better or healthy for the game. As well this would probably also push out BLM quite a bit, depending on what buffs they got, which is not good either. As you said earlier, not trying to sound snarky here text is hard, parties want to be fed not feed, this would play mightily into that no?

I personally think Verraise should be nerfed too, but I wouldn't be okay with that as the consolation buff. Verraise already costs 25% MP and if it's removed from Dualcast it's fine. RDM doesn't have innate MP recovery like the other two casters (aside from lucid).

[Shiroe]

giving blm rez, will not make them more desirable, cause the blm will only complain wasting their swiftcast, they need badly for mechanics.. and blm often wont rez till theyre in the ice astral too (might as well let the healer hardcast the rez..)

rez is just not the way to fix blm

edit: like the idea of giving rdm TA to replace embolden (if ofc they finally buff blm too, a lot.. and lower smn devotion cooldown or buff i a very slight tick)

[Llugen]

Ah look, another 'splosions person that didn't read the thread. See how rampant this "forced ignorance" issue is? (I'm not trying to offend, it's just perfectly highlighting my argument)

@Silver-Strider, Sorry to say, but if your group is still progressing on Neo and knowingly ignoring "the meta"/strategy, then this isn't the thread for you. You are more than welcome to do those things if you want, but we are talking about BLM/the caster role at the high end with regard to balance. This is in the same vein of people who say BLM's damage is fine when all they do is 24 man raids and expert roulettes (and to be honest even in those right now the damage is not fine).

[Silver-Strider]

@Silver-Strider, Sorry to say, but if your group is still progressing on Neo and knowingly ignoring "the meta"/strategy, then this isn't the thread for you. You are more than welcome to do those things if you want, but we are talking about BLM/the caster role at the high end with regard to balance. This is in the same vein of people who say BLM's damage is fine when all they do is 24 man raids and expert roulettes (and to be honest even in those right now the damage is not fine).

I'm not saying that BLM damage is alright. I'm saying that you're arbitrarily leaving out viable options of playing the game just to further your own point, trying to present them as facts when they're just your opinion on the matter. In regards to high end balance, giving BLM rez will do nothing to help them be more viable in end game content, as the things holding BLM back are low damage due to lack of mobility and the lack of synergy with other classes.

There's been plenty of suggestion to improve BLM's damage on the BLM megathread but the lack of class synergy is something that has only ever lightly been touched upon. The meta is why it is because the synergy between all the classes involved is insane. Perfect CD alignments on top of the general buffs they grant the group are impossible to match with the way the game is currently set up and honestly nothing short of a complete overhaul will ever change that. SMN is close to breaking into the physical meta because it has some synergy and utility but this topic is actively trying to nerf SMN and bringing it back to square 1 instead.

What I mean by a complete overhaul is that they would need to make select classes synergy better with one another on a similar level that DRG currently has with BRD+MCH. Things like giving DRK a skill that increase the damage the enemy takes from Magic attacks, changing RDM's Embolden to grant extra magic damage instead of physical, making Ley Lines a group wide SpS buff, and so on. These are the types of suggestions that would broaden the meta in a way that would be beneficial to everyone by allowing every comp to be viable in its own way.

[Usho]

Been lurking this title but I think I'll add my 2 cents. For those wanting BLM to have a raise, consider this: Lore wise, BLMs are mages that focus on dark arts. Their magic is based on destruction. SMN's have always been pseudo-healers ever since FFIX, so it makes sense for SMN's to have a raise spell. RDM's having raise also makes sense seeing as they have the ability to use both white and black magic...so them having a raise makes more sense than BLM having raise.

So if you base this logic on lore, BLM having a raise makes no sense. Not sure why people keep saying BLM needs something that makes no sense for them to have. Also, if your jelly because RDM can insta-raise with dualcast...also consider this: If BLM had a raise spell, given their really unique mp regeneration, they can pull off more raises than SMN, and BLM can quickly regain MP via Blizzard spells.

Case in point: BLM doesn't need raise. Argue if you want, but my point will still be a valid reason. Back to lurking.

[Llugen]

Obviously you haven’t been lurking very hard, or you would have read my necromancy (read: DARK ARTS) suggestion that would reconcile “Black Magic” lore with balance.




*************



RESPONDING TO THE BELOW POST because the forum post limit per main character is absurd:

Did you hear that guys? "Final Fantasy facts". Nothing is ever allowed to be re-imagined in a Final Fantasy game!

SAM is a Tank and DRK is a DPS! There are no male mi'qote or femroes! Oh, and all the new primals are fake news!


Satire aside, this thread is about the fact that there is an issue of imbalance in the caster role, so a suggestion for how to reconcile the issue is exactly what is needed. Please open your mind a bit before blathering on saying things that have already been addressed to a T. "Read enough to know" directly translates into "ignorant of potential new information/ideas".

[Usho]

Obviously you haven’t been lurking very hard, or you would have read my necromancy (read: DARK ARTS) suggestion that would reconcile “Black Magic” lore with balance.

I've read enough to know what I wanted to say on the subject. Also, a "suggestion" means nothing since my reply was based on actual Final Fantasy facts.