Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Remedi]

I get the sentiment, but that’s a terrible argument. It’s widely accepted that you can use any Job for any content, but that doesn’t mean players should stop caring about Job balance altogether.

On that note, DRK being in a WF group is irrelevant to overall balance discussion.

Kinda is however, before the WF the general sentiment was that DRK was inferior in everything, now it's more like; ok it has some niche strenght, which means that how an encounter works does affect overall job balance, which means that needs to be taken in factor when discussing things.

[zuzu-bq]

DRK is still inferior to everything unless there is a multihit magic attack. Bahamut does have that, but they didn't play DRK because of it and this is still a too specific of a niche.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I have a better solution. How about the devs ignore everyone whining about not being top DPS and let they supposedly selfish DPS jobs do, you know, top DPS? Black Mage would be fine if it did substantially more damage than its counterparts; same for Samurai. For whatever reason, the devs fell right back into the HW conundrum with Monk and now all three jobs have suffered.

Or people could stop acting like meta is needed to clear anything. Just remember drk was world first for ultimate, that isn’t meta. Play what you want and stop caring so much about meta.

Why do people always resort to this argument? I wager few here give a hoot about meta. They just want to feel like their job has a niche. Right now, they are being out done by a hybrid caster when their whole purpose is to be the selfish DPS that does massive damage. What your argument boils down to is "screw balance, so long as it can clear things." That's FFXI logic, which led to people blocking certain jobs out of parties for being deemed "worthless." We've already starting to see that in PFs.

[Reynhart]

BLM's personal damage actually beats RDM+Embolden, meanwhile SMN and MCH beats them both.

That's definitely a problem, then. If SMN beats BLM both on personal damage and indirect contribution on raid damage, BLM should be upped on at least one of those.

The power to Raise is not only important to clear throught deaths but also see more of the fight before wiping.

This is much trickier to balance. If the only penalty of one death is DPS (Like faiing a DPS check), a BLM with higher base DPS could compensate or, like I half-jokingly suggested before, a way of gaining DPS when someone is dead.
If the penatly is screwing a mechanic, it's more complicated for each job to bring an equally valuable solution.

[MaloraYuki]

I get the sentiment, but that’s a terrible argument. It’s widely accepted that you can use any Job for any content, but that doesn’t mean players should stop caring about Job balance altogether.

On that note, DRK being in a WF group is irrelevant to overall balance discussion.

My point was that people shouldn’t consider a job worthless for not being “meta”. If a player is good enough then the job disparity really isn’t that bad. I understand wanting balance but raise doesn’t fit into the blm job. It’s also been said before they wouldn’t give blm a raise so why complain about it? Any job can get through anything it’s about player skill people who block jobs because it isn’t “meta” are just pathetic. But omg god forbid someone says “meta” is worthless.

[zuzu-bq]

This is much trickier to balance. If the only penalty of one death is DPS (Like faiing a DPS check), a BLM with higher base DPS could compensate or, like I half-jokingly suggested before, a way of gaining DPS when someone is dead.
If the penatly is screwing a mechanic, it's more complicated for each job to bring an equally valuable solution.

I agree that is a tricky balance, at the moment the chain raise power of RDM do not need much balance mostly because RDM itself is weak. While SMN's ability to raise only really stands out because the MP issues were fixed and SMN can offer everything else other casters can but better, so OP's point is meme levels of balancement to be honest. While I think Red Mage need damage tweaks, unless it becomes the mage with the best damage output the Raise part of it won't need any balancement really. Its a niche ability. I could justify myself being a BLM over other casters for Omega progression because BLM had the best damage output by savage release which helped us push a few things we otherwise wouldn't for example. I did change for RDM a few moments to use Raises to let us see more of the fight and in the case of O2S clear without figuring how Catastrophe's Longdrop worked by simply raising dead people (we were stacking only 4 to the shared damage). Its funny to think casters were actually more balanced betweeen eachother before they started "fixing" Summoner.

[RLofOBFL]

RDM is not in the meta at all. You use RDM for prof, it otherwise it'll just fall behind in dps. BLM does bring absolutely nothing though, and need to be treated specially to even get close to SAM numbers. But a battle raise won't really help this. SMN is too strong now, it's pushing brd or much out of the meta so BLM has no shot.

[zuzu-bq]

SAM numbers are also, too low.

[Remedi]

DRK is still inferior to everything unless there is a multihit magic attack. Bahamut does have that, but they didn't play DRK because of it and this is still a too specific of a niche.

Yes, I'm not saying it's not true, what I'm getting at is that encounters can have some variance where a job can have a small advantage over another ant it should be taken in consideration when talking about game balance.
Some players on high end have come to say that PLD/DRK can be considered a better option for ultimate compared to PLD/WAR especially because on how the final phase goes.

That doesn't mean that DRK isn't inferior in many places compared to other tanks, but as said I want for ppl to be more attentive when they talk about job balance, because imho it's not so black and white as it seems

[zuzu-bq]

Devs and specially Yoshida contradict themselves a lot though. While they congratulate and say DRK is fine because it has ultimate clears I doube we will see any BLM RDM SAM MNK changes anytime soon even though they haven't shown themselves in groups doing hard prog on Ultimate. Or any commentary about it at all.