Warriors need MORE damage

[Shurrikhan]

Warrior damage is base off off rng https://www.mooglemedia.com/releasin...w-xenosys-vex/ this interview frim xenosys-vex explains why

No more so than any other job...

Less, so, even, than Bard or Monk.

Yes, a disproportionately large part of Warrior damage is dealt within a small portion of gameplay, which means fewer sample strikes, but it's no more dependent on critical strikes or direct hits than anyone else -- less, even, than any job that specifically has on-crit mechanics.

[Nyxn607]

Warriors need more damage? Do you even play warrior? It has the best damage out of the all of the tanks as it is. Why give them an even bigger boost?

[Sylvina]

Warrior damage is base off off rng https://www.mooglemedia.com/releasin...w-xenosys-vex/ this interview frim xenosys-vex explains why

I disagree with his opinion on the other tanks, but about WAR he's actually making a lot of sense.

[Lyth]

Warrior damage is base off off rng https://www.mooglemedia.com/releasin...w-xenosys-vex/ this interview frim xenosys-vex explains why

This strikes me as a variant of one of the gambler's fallacies.

Every critical hit is an independent event. The actual distribution of damage does not matter, as each action or attack is assessed independently of the others. You can actually show this formally if you like, as the expected value for your damage can be expressed as the integral product of your crit rate and your damage as a function of time. It actually doesn't matter how your damage over time is distributed, as long as the area under the curve (i.e. the total damage done) is a constant.

Actually, when you look at it more closely, WAR is actually more likely to land a crit on big hits like Fell Cleave than other tanks, because of how the Deliverance crit bonus works and because you're encouraged to build up to max resources (and as a result, maximum crit rate) before launching into your Fell Cleave spam. You'll see this reflected in your damage breakdown as well; there's generally a much higher crit rate on Fell Cleave than auto attacks, which are the second highest source of damage. WAR is actually privileged, rather than penalized in this regard.

I can see why the idea would be appealing; if you do poorly, you can blame crit for not occurring when it was supposed to. But the chance of this happening is the same, if not lower, than everyone else. Either way, I wouldn't rely too heavily on Xeno as a source of reliable information, and most of this article reflects that. He's more an entertainer than anything else.

[Aana]

This strikes me as a variant of one of the gambler's fallacies.

Every critical hit is an independent event. The actual distribution of damage does not matter, as each action or attack is assessed independently of the others. You can actually show this formally if you like, as the expected value for your damage can be expressed as the integral product of your crit rate and your damage as a function of time. It actually doesn't matter how your damage over time is distributed, as long as the area under the curve (i.e. the total damage done) is a constant.

Actually, when you look at it more closely, WAR is actually more likely to land a crit on big hits like Fell Cleave than other tanks, because of how the Deliverance crit bonus works and because you're encouraged to build up to max resources (and as a result, maximum crit rate) before launching into your Fell Cleave spam. You'll see this reflected in your damage breakdown as well; there's generally a much higher crit rate on Fell Cleave than auto attacks, which are the second highest source of damage. WAR is actually privileged, rather than penalized in this regard.

I can see why the idea would be appealing; if you do poorly, you can blame crit for not occurring when it was supposed to. But the chance of this happening is the same, if not lower, than everyone else. Either way, I wouldn't rely too heavily on Xeno as a source of reliable information, and most of this article reflects that. He's more an entertainer than anything else.

War gets a boost to crit rate during the window of course. What xeno is talking about (and now everyone and their mom suddenly agreeing after seeing it) is that any individual parse run is RNG based. On average it will work out well as you have a higher crit chance during burst windows than non-burst. But when you have 6 FCs, 2 onslaughts and an upheaval stuffed into a single 30% zerk+Potion window followed by comparably dead space your parse for that ONE fight instance can be dramatically different if you !! 4 of the fell cleaves and upheaval than if you crit 4 non zerked combo hits after the window.

The average over time will be fine. (FFlogs proves this easily). But there is little consistency when applying that to any individual run. Every job has crit RNG to deal with during burst windows. War's damage is just the most heavily slanted in that window and it can bork an entire parse run if you have 1-2 bad windows more than other jobs. Similarly Crit RNG will give you a huge epeen parse once in a while when you !! 6 FCs in a row during opener. Its not a 'problem' in the conventional sense. War avg damage is more than fine atm. But it lowers the consistency of war on any individual run and the player has no way to adjust. Just pray that !! is on the potion zerk FC instead of the AA.

TLDR: War damage over time averages out just fine statistically like everything else. But it luck plays a bigger role in wars parse than other jobs because such an obscene portion of their damage is focused on 2-4 narrow windows with buffs each fight. Sure youre crit rate for the fight probably wont change but the distribution of those crits being in or not in the buff windows and on the right skills has dramatic DPS effects.

Its a consistency complaint, not a power complaint. But war has always been like this. It always had obscene burst windows with old 50% zerk. Its just the nature of the class imo at this point. But I get where the frustration comes from. My LS always says "look who ate their Wheaties today!" when I have a sick opener. I just feel sad because I know im hitting the same buttons I have for the last 2 hours of practice but I got some !! on that one. 'I' didn't do that. The game decides to eat Wheaties or not. Not me. Ive always considered it in the character of warrior. You don't control the inner beast. You release it. Then it does whatever the F it wants. Works for me.

[Tegernako]

Warrior damage is base off off rng https://www.mooglemedia.com/releasin...w-xenosys-vex/ this interview frim xenosys-vex explains why

I really dislike how Xenos acts but he is 100% so freaking right about WAR/DRK that I want to cry.

I just want to break down and cry because it's so beautiful.

100% right on the money about all the stupid decisions they made and how to fix it.

[Aana]

I really dislike how Xenos acts but he is 100% so freaking right about WAR/DRK that I want to cry.

I just want to break down and cry because it's so beautiful.

100% right on the money about all the stupid decisions they made and how to fix it.

Xeno heavily exaggerates almost everything he says. There are small grains of truth in his comments but not nearly to the degree he makes them out to be. The principle that a burst class with 1 action significantly more powerful (FC) than the rotation does make crit distribution matter more than a less 'spikey' dps. That is a fact. But it overlooks the actual impact. I had to use a completely obscene example to show that point (imaginary FC that does 91x a normal hit rofl). The principle is true but the actual effect will be negligible in a 10 minute fight. This comment only has any practical application in the ultra-elite speed running leader board going from 99% to 100%. If you have to get THAT high up the food chain before RNG has any real impact, then SE got close enough for a PVE game and frankly SE SHOULD NOT change classes around to cater to that infinitesimal fraction of players.

Xeno is right in the most technical sense, but not in any practical one.

[Rufalus]

Yeah there can't be a dps chasm between them now because warrior mitigation/utility is fine too, so it wouldn't have a downside to offset big dps. It feels good for all of the tanks to do good dps and just be differentiated by playstyles which I think they are achieving quite well atm.

[Launched]

Yeah there can't be a dps chasm between them now because warrior mitigation/utility is fine too, so it wouldn't have a downside to offset big dps. It feels good for all of the tanks to do good dps and just be differentiated by playstyles which I think they are achieving quite well atm.

There's still a big gap in utility between PLD and WAR/DRK. That's not balanced.

[Awha]

Fell Cleave needs a buff, should only cost 10 rage. Warriors need a niche, and that niche should be fell cleave, so they need more fell cleaves.