Updated Thoughts on MNK. pt. 1: Form Shift

[BucklesTrespen]

I've recently come back to my Monk after shelving it for a few months to focus on gearing my Dragoon. Since getting back into the swing of things I have had a few thoughts I'd like to add to the (ever-growing) pool of thoughts/suggestions scattered across these forums.

The first thing that hit me? Holy heck - we have a lot of buttons to press during boss jumps / mechanics. I got to thinking (and counting on fingers) and we have anywhere between 1-5 Chakra to build as well as X form shifts to cycle so as to land us in Coeurl within 10 seconds on the boss landing - in further addition to possibly Riddle of Earth then finally Fists of Fire. That's many buttons to press...

While playing my Dragoon I have to press 1. Blood of the Dragon IF the generously long 20-30 second timer on it threatens to fall off.

Ninja's have 4 to press I think to just reapply Huton - Jin/Chi/Ten/ACTIVATE!
(NOTE: Jin/Chi/Ten/ACTIVATE is way faster than building 4 Chakra given the 0.50 CD)

Samurai - I don't play but several in /shout say they just hold Meditate which is a channeled ability? Maybe someone can elaborate (while staying on point).

So I toyed with the idea of changing Form Shift to a 90s cooldown ability that has the singular effect of allowing the use of any weaponskill for 10 seconds. With this change, the skill retains its original purpose entirely (to help keep GL up), but eliminates the annoyance of having to press this skill eleventy-one times to achieve that purpose.

Think about it:
-No more spamming Form Shift pre-boss pull while we try to gauge when the tank will pull.
-No more panicking to get into Coeurl form when the tank throws up a 5 second pull timer (while running towards the boss).
-No more spamming/juggling Form Shift/Meditation during jump phases, trying to time Coeurl form for the landing.

The lengthy cooldown means it can't be used as a method to get into GL 3 any faster than we can with it's original design. It would have a slightly positive relationship with Tornado Kick because we could theoretically Tornado Kick, Snap Punch, Form Shift, Snap Punch - taking us back to GL2 - which I consider a good thing given Tornado Kick is currently woefully underused. However, this won't always be beneficial - again, given the lengthy cooldown.

I want to offer my other suggestions, and may edit them in at a later time (since there is A LOT about this class that doesn't sit right at the moment), however let's address things one-by-one and seek simple solutions to cumbersome / awkward mechanics within the job.

So, all our other problems aside, what do you fellow Monks think of this suggestion. Is this a step that could be taken in a future QoL pass on the job?

[MauvaisOeil]

I've recently come back to my Monk after shelving it for a few months to focus on gearing my Dragoon. Since getting back into the swing of things I have had a few thoughts I'd like to add to the (ever-growing) pool of thoughts/suggestions scattered across these forums.

The first thing that hit me? Holy heck - we have a lot of buttons to press during boss jumps / mechanics. I got to thinking (and counting on fingers) and we have anywhere between 1-5 Chakra to build as well as X form shifts to cycle so as to land us in Coeurl within 10 seconds on the boss landing - in further addition to possibly Riddle of Earth then finally Fists of Fire. That's many buttons to press...

While playing my Dragoon I have to press 1. Blood of the Dragon IF the generously long 20-30 second timer on it threatens to fall off.

Ninja's have 4 to press I think to just reapply Huton - Jin/Chi/Ten/ACTIVATE!
(NOTE: Jin/Chi/Ten/ACTIVATE is way faster than building 4 Chakra given the 0.50 CD)

Samurai - I don't play but several in /shout say they just hold Meditate which is a channeled ability? Maybe someone can elaborate (while staying on point).

So I toyed with the idea of changing Form Shift to a 90s cooldown ability that has the singular effect of allowing the use of any weaponskill for 10 seconds. With this change, the skill retains its original purpose entirely (to help keep GL up), but eliminates the annoyance of having to press this skill eleventy-one times to achieve that purpose.

Think about it:
-No more spamming Form Shift pre-boss pull while we try to gauge when the tank will pull.
-No more panicking to get into Coeurl form when the tank throws up a 5 second pull timer (while running towards the boss).
-No more spamming/juggling Form Shift/Meditation during jump phases, trying to time Coeurl form for the landing.

The lengthy cooldown means it can't be used as a method to get into GL 3 any faster than we can with it's original design. It would have a slightly positive relationship with Tornado Kick because we could theoretically Tornado Kick, Snap Punch, Form Shift, Snap Punch - taking us back to GL2 - which I consider a good thing given Tornado Kick is currently woefully underused. However, this won't always be beneficial - again, given the lengthy cooldown.

I want to offer my other suggestions, and may edit them in at a later time (since there is A LOT about this class that doesn't sit right at the moment), however let's address things one-by-one and seek simple solutions to cumbersome / awkward mechanics within the job.

So, all our other problems aside, what do you fellow Monks think of this suggestion. Is this a step that could be taken in a future QoL pass on the job?

I think it would be way more interesting to have Form shift the same GCD as Meditation (1.2s), and shifting from Coeurl to Opo opo would give GL the same way using a skill in Coeurl from gives it.

That's quite a mess prepull, the GL stacks could then be "combat only", to avoid 10 shifts prepull over 12s for the 3 stacks of GL, but that would allow a WAY better conservation of GL at will during boss jumps, out of melee range or forced /sit.

What you propose, is just an other Perfect Balance with no identity. Form shift itself is not bad, but it's slow and offers nothing more than a thin security. We don't need 10 skills mimmicking the same role (I'm looking at you, Perfect Riddle of Meditate-kick)

But clearer abilities offering different benefits, in different situations, with no competition between them.

FC could also offer a GL stack, making it a good recover if PB is not up, shifting during the boss jump to coeurl form then hitting demolish and FC for an instant 2 GL stacks. A quite good recovery.

[Tigerlilley]

Literally out of all the current problems with monk, this for me ranks as super low.

You press a button 8 times before a pull. You learn a fight so you don't have to panic your timing on boss jumps. Chakra refills itself (sometimes) during the battle. It's been said many times that monk is not built for casual content. In fact it's utter hell for casual content. The design flaws go a lot further than form shift.

Sure a shorter cooldown would be nice but it's not essential and doesn't address any problems long time players are posting about.

[Kahnom]

Just like above poster said.
Would be nice but not nescessary.
The true QOL for mnk right now is shorter riddle of earth's cooldown.

[Silver-Strider]

Just like above poster said.
Would be nice but not nescessary.
The true QOL for mnk right now is shorter riddle of earth's cooldown.

You spelt Perfect Balance Wrong.

Honestly, there are a lot of QoL fixes for MNK that could be applied.
Simply doing away with form timers alone would be a godsend as that would eliminate the whole stance dancing pre-pull as you just hit it 3 times and are solid until the pull.
Extending the duration of GL in general would also greatly help as there'd be less need for maintenance skills like Riddle of Earth to even exist. Barring this, having Riddle of Earth apply the GL refresh both on activation and on hit would be a welcome alternative.

[Kahnom]

You spelt Perfect Balance Wrong.

Honestly, there are a lot of QoL fixes for MNK that could be applied.
Simply doing away with form timers alone would be a godsend as that would eliminate the whole stance dancing pre-pull as you just hit it 3 times and are solid until the pull.
Extending the duration of GL in general would also greatly help as there'd be less need for maintenance skills like Riddle of Earth to even exist. Barring this, having Riddle of Earth apply the GL refresh both on activation and on hit would be a welcome alternative.

Perfect Balance's cooldown will never be reduced.Same as the slow pace from Riddle of Fire,I mean if they're gonna fix it,it should be done by now.But there is a possibility for ROE's cooldown to get reduced in the future patch,I just try to be realistic here.
Either they're gonna fix it or not,You still need to adjust yourself sooner or later and I'm sure all main monks are already do just that.

[Xau]

and I'm sure all main monks are already do just that.

yes, by maining other job

[Kahnom]

yes, by maining other job

Then that only means they don't actually love the job.

[Svabodnik]

Form Shift is a lot more flexible than "get me to Coeurl" in the way it's implemented, allowing you to alter your stance regardless of enemy engagement, and for a multitude of reasons (i.e. forced away from the boss by an AoE after a Snap Punch, and Demolish is going to fall off soon? Go from Opo-opo to Raptor so when you reengage you can go straight to a True Strike > Demolish. Happens again a few seconds later? You can do it again!). Locking it behind a cooldown will give yet another CD which limits the monk kit once its been used (see: PB), rather than the how it currently is - you can do it at any point, as long as you have the time and mindfulness for it.

As a QoL change I can get behind, if out of combat you can get to max Chakra stacks with a single button press of Meditation and/or have a faster cast time for Form Shift, but the ability to manage your resource and stance during the downtimes in a fight actually makes monk more engaging to play, in my opinion, and helps distinguish it a bit from the other melee DPS jobs. Anyways, as has been said here, I'm seeing a few more glaring issues with MNK at the moment than simple QoL changes.

[Mikey_R]

I'll never understand why people hate form shift in its current state, it's a really good and useful ability to have and to lose it would be a kick in the teeth. It the boggles my mind on the weird ways they have to 'improve' it. No monk wants to lose the flexibility the skill gives, as Svabodnik stated, it's useful when you have to disengage for a bit to dodge an AoE or even doing mechanics. Having that ability restricted behind a lengthy cooldown defeats the entire point of the skill.

In the other topic, someone mentioned removing form shift and essentially replacing it with a trait that basically gives you permanent Opo-opo unless you are in raptor or coeurl, which is equally as stupid.

The only changes i can get behind are reducing the cooldown to the same as meditate and having it refresh GL3 when you form shift out of coeurl. If the refreshing GL happens, you then have more freedom to add new skills, Riddle of Earth will be useless, so we can get something to take it's place, Tornado Kick will also become pointless, but changing it to an AoE Chakra dump (which has been suggested) sorts that out.

Regardless, there are more important things to worry about the monks toolkit than Form Shift, which is arguably one of the best moves HW gave to Monk.