A Warning for Buyers

[Jpec07]

This is a post meant to warn other naive, first-time buyers to avoid my mistakes. This is not a complaining post; I am not looking for sympathy, but to help others.

Foreword

So this evening, through a combination of naivete and what looked like a good opportunity, my Free Company was scammed out of several million gil. While the administration is sorting out the details of whether or not what happened to us counts as a scam, and whether or not we will be reimbursed, I wanted to use our misfortune to extend a warning to potential first-time buyers of housing. While many of you may look at this and see several warning flags (which I can see in retrospect), the fact is that it happened, and I'd like to do my part to prevent it happening to others.

Notes for Buyers

If you're in the market for a house, there are a few take-aways from our story that I'd like to share.

• Ask lots of questions. I learned details afterwards from others who came to the plot to warn people that would have made the sale seem extremely shady from the start. If I'd asked questions, I might have been able to avoid it.
• Make the seller state clearly what you will get for your gil. In my case, there is a small chance that my Free Company will not be reimbursed, because the terms of the sale were not explicitly stated (the seller initiated a race of sorts, saying that the winner would "get it"). However, with a clearly stated trade agreement, the GMs will have no choice but to rule in your favor.
• 3,000,000 (3M) gil is too good to be true. Pricing for houses is not well-documented anywhere. While it is easy to surmise that larger houses go for several million gil, there is no clear notice in game of what "several" is. The house we tried to purchase went up for sale near 20,000,000 gil once the title was relinquished, which made the 3,000,000 pricetag absurd. There are also evidently a lot of fees surrounding housing and transfers and the like that are also not well-documented, and in my case, 3M gil was just enough to cover those.
• Look up the process beforehand if you don't know it. The seller in my case feigned ignorance of how to transfer ownership, and attempted to make the relinquishment look like an accident at first. I'm not even sure if there IS a process for getting a house into someone else's hands without going through the market, but these are things I could have found out if I'd looked.
• Stick to the market. If you are a first time buyer and you don't know the ins and outs of the system, avoid private sales. It is too easy for someone who knows the way things work to trick someone who doesn't. If you don't have experience with it, use the default channels.
• Please look forward to it. There are strong, partly-confirmed rumors that the housing system will be revisited prior to 3.1, which likely means in the next month or so. If you're waiting to buy a house, that will likely be the time to buy.

TL,DR: Don't let your excitement and eagerness and desire cloud your judgment. It will come around to bite you in the behind.

[Jpec07]

Our Story

I saw a party in Party Finder advertising sale of a house for the first player to trade the owner 3M gil. Since my small FC has been in the market for a house for a long time, and since we've been stockpiling gil for an eventual purchase, I highlighted this to the officers and other members, and they told me to jump on it.

So I joined the party, and after retrieving the gil from the FC Chest, ported and sprinted to the designated plot. The seller greeted me, and I eagerly traded him our gil. Once he'd received all of it, the seller pulled the party from PF and said that he needed to see how to do it.

The title was relinquished, and the plot went up for sale on the market.

I asked the seller what was going on, and they said that was how it worked. I asked what our 3M was for, and they said it was for the fee to relinquish the land. Then they left the party while I stood, gawking at the plot that could have been ours, up for sale for more than we could afford.

[MysteryNotes]

Our Story

I saw a party in Party Finder advertising sale of a house for the first player to trade the owner 3M gil. Since my small FC has been in the market for a house for a long time, and since we've been stockpiling gil for an eventual purchase, I highlighted this to the officers and other members, and they told me to jump on it.

So I joined the party, and after retrieving the gil from the FC Chest, ported and sprinted to the designated plot. The seller greeted me, and I eagerly traded him our gil. Once he'd received all of it, the seller pulled the party from PF and said that he needed to see how to do it.

The title was relinquished, and the plot went up for sale on the market.

I asked the seller what was going on, and they said that was how it worked. I asked what our 3M was for, and they said it was for the fee to relinquish the land. Then they left the party while I stood, gawking at the plot that could have been ours, up for sale for more than we could afford.

I don't understand?

The agreement was for the house, and he delivered his end of the bargain which was to make the house available to purchase. Its you that didn't do the research, and prepare the requisite sum of money beforehand to purchase it.

It looks to me like you didn't bother find out what happens during a transfer, and are blaming the seller for your own ignorance.
AFAIK there is no way to directly transfer a house to another person(Unless its via taking control of an fc?)

Did you really expect someone to sell you a plot of land for 3mil gil and give you the extra money you needed to purchase it?

[Whiteroom]

I don't understand?

The agreement was for the house, and he delivered his end of the bargain which was to make the house available to purchase. Its you that didn't do the research, and prepare the requisite sum of money beforehand to purchase it.

It looks to me like you didn't bother find out what happens during a transfer, and are blaming the seller for your own ignorance.
AFAIK there is no way to directly transfer a house to another person(Unless its via taking control of an fc?)

Did you really expect someone to sell you a plot of land for 3mil gil and give you the extra money you needed to purchase it?

This is pretty much it. They haven't at least that I've heard, put in any method of transferring your house directly to another player. AFAIK someone could just camp the sellers spot, and as soon as he relinquished it, scoop it out from under you. All you are doing is paying him to give up his claim on the land. You don't get the land, the house or the building permit from the deal. Sounds like he was the legit one. Sorry to say.

[Jpec07]

<snip>

Well that's exactly it. There is no information about housing available within the game for prospective buyers. Pricing, fees, costs incurred, processes - there is nothing unless you've owned a house, or done research outside of the game. We didn't know that there was no way to transfer the house. The seller also implied with the party comments that they were going to transfer the house to us for that cost - there was no indication that we were just buying the opportunity to buy.

We weren't expecting them to relinquish the land and pay for our purchase: we were expecting a fair trade of 3M gil for the deed to the land. This does sound absurd now, but it seemed like the seller just wanted to get rid of it.

I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm looking to warn other newcomers to the market away from these scams, where they might rush headlong without this information and get burned the same way.

[Sylfaein]

Well that's exactly it. There is no information about housing available within the game for prospective buyers. Pricing, fees, costs incurred, processes - there is nothing unless you've owned a house, or done research outside of the game.

There isn't information on this process in-game because it was developed by players and the market, rather than SE. Private land sales are completely player-driven. That said, there is a lot to be said for research, like coming to this forum. I posted a question a while back, asking how much to expect to pay for a relinquish, and got a lot of great information. It paid off.

[Jpec07]

There isn't information on this process in-game because it was developed by players and the market, rather than SE. Private land sales are completely player-driven. That said, there is a lot to be said for research, like coming to this forum. I posted a question a while back, asking how much to expect to pay for a relinquish, and got a lot of great information. It paid off.

Even so, there isn't anything about how much a house actually costs to purchase. There isn't anything that says that players can't transfer land directly to one another. Even with either of those things clearly stated somewhere, this whole scam/misunderstanding/whatever you want to call it would have been avoided.

[MsCroc]

I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm looking to warn other newcomers to the market away from these scams, where they might rush headlong without this information and get burned the same way.

This wasn't a scam though. The seller was legit and was even offering a rather afforable price. Due to how limited the availability housing is, most servers have no houses available so the market is all player driven. The selling of plot relinquishment is not just common, for most servers it's the only option. It is a completely, fair assumption that due to the rarity of houses, you probably know what you're getting into if you are wanting to buy a house. I do not even fault this other player for not expounding; he should not be expected to.

The only "warning" here should be for players to do research before buying. Is this your first MMO by any chance? Most MMOs usually have at least one player driven market that the developers did not intend. It's not really uncommon. (For example, paying for speed runs or 'runs' in general in GW1)

[Kaiser-Ace]

Our Story


This is a post meant to warn other naive, first-time buyers to avoid my mistakes. This is not a complaining post; I am not looking for sympathy, but to help others.

Foreword

So this evening, through a combination of naivete and what looked like a good opportunity, my Free Company was scammed out of several million gil. While the administration is sorting out the details of whether or not what happened to us counts as a scam, and whether or not we will be reimbursed, I wanted to use our misfortune to extend a warning to potential first-time buyers of housing. While many of you may look at this and see several warning flags (which I can see in retrospect), the fact is that it happened, and I'd like to do my part to prevent it happening to others.

Notes for Buyers

If you're in the market for a house, there are a few take-aways from our story that I'd like to share.
Ask lots of questions. I learned details afterwards from others who came to the plot to warn people that would have made the sale seem extremely shady from the start. If I'd asked questions, I might have been able to avoid it.
Make the seller state clearly what you will get for your gil. In my case, there is a small chance that my Free Company will not be reimbursed, because the terms of the sale were not explicitly stated (the seller initiated a race of sorts, saying that the winner would "get it"). However, with a clearly stated trade agreement, the GMs will have no choice but to rule in your favor.
3,000,000 (3M) gil is too good to be true. Pricing for houses is not well-documented anywhere. While it is easy to surmise that larger houses go for several million gil, there is no clear notice in game of what "several" is. The house we tried to purchase went up for sale near 20,000,000 gil once the title was relinquished, which made the 3,000,000 pricetag absurd. There are also evidently a lot of fees surrounding housing and transfers and the like that are also not well-documented, and in my case, 3M gil was just enough to cover those.
Look up the process beforehand if you don't know it. The seller in my case feigned ignorance of how to transfer ownership, and attempted to make the relinquishment look like an accident at first. I'm not even sure if there IS a process for getting a house into someone else's hands without going through the market, but these are things I could have found out if I'd looked.
Stick to the market. If you are a first time buyer and you don't know the ins and outs of the system, avoid private sales. It is too easy for someone who knows the way things work to trick someone who doesn't. If you don't have experience with it, use the default channels.
Please look forward to it. There are strong, partly-confirmed rumors that the housing system will be revisited prior to 3.1, which likely means in the next month or so. If you're waiting to buy a house, that will likely be the time to buy.

TL,DR: Don't let your excitement and eagerness and desire cloud your judgment. It will come around to bite you in the behind.


I saw a party in Party Finder advertising sale of a house for the first player to trade the owner 3M gil. Since my small FC has been in the market for a house for a long time, and since we've been stockpiling gil for an eventual purchase, I highlighted this to the officers and other members, and they told me to jump on it.

So I joined the party, and after retrieving the gil from the FC Chest, ported and sprinted to the designated plot. The seller greeted me, and I eagerly traded him our gil. Once he'd received all of it, the seller pulled the party from PF and said that he needed to see how to do it.

The title was relinquished, and the plot went up for sale on the market.

I asked the seller what was going on, and they said that was how it worked. I asked what our 3M was for, and they said it was for the fee to relinquish the land. Then they left the party while I stood, gawking at the plot that could have been ours, up for sale for more than we could afford.

This situation falls into a morally grey area as there doesn't seem to be a malicious act on the land seller's part. He knew there was no proper way to sell one to one and had no way of knowing you were ignorant of that well known common knowledge. But at the same time, he did what he was payed to do. 3 million to relinquish the land likely didn't even pay his investment back if he was selling anything but a small plot so the three million was a pittance compared to the property's value. If you were ignorant of the fact that not only is land not exchangeable between players but also what property prices actually are for free plots, then I'm afraid the GMs will find no fault in the seller due to the fault being in your own ignorance of common knowledge information. For future reference, Smalls=1.5-5 million, Mediums=15-80 million, and Larges =100-500 million depending on the server. If it was anything over a small my "Fish Sencor" would have been going off immediately but alas I'm also aware of the pricing as you unfortunately weren't.

P.S. I also took the liberty of combining your first and second posts Jpec as they could have been one post using edit. Also for the fact some people may have their UIs set up like mine where newest posts are 1st and the OP is last.

The only "warning" here should be for players to do research before buying. Is this your first MMO by any chance? Most MMOs usually have at least one player driven market that the developers did not intend. It's not really uncommon. (For example, paying for speed runs or 'runs' in general in GW1)

I'll admit I've sold my Tank and Healer services before and even payed for a few but the idea of someone willingly running off with cash is obscene and immoral. I always offer full and partial refunds to (by my definition) botched runs if a run didn't run as smooth as planed and I typically don't pay until after the run of which I pat the agreed price, no more, no less.

[Kyu-Momo]

Holy sheez... whoa... okay...

So, when someone says that they are "selling their house plot" what they REALLY mean is "they are only relinquishing the land plot so if you don't have enough money to re-buy the plot then you are SOL"

Yeah, thanks for this topic TC. I'm so sorry to hear that that happened to you.
But really, THANK YOU for this.

Yikes! I had no idea!
After all the crap I put up with in WoW (trolling, griefing etc) I don't have much faith in people anymore... So, I think I'll just play it safe and wait, however long it takes, for Square to either add more plots or implement the method they discussed in the interviews...

It will be a LONG wait. Probably years, but maybe by then I'll have a lot of money saved up and can actually afford one.

I want to change choco color and have a garden. I can wait for as long as it takes. :3