#BringBackHeavenswardReprisal

[Mycow8me]

From what I can see, you won't want to use this skill until you have 100 gauge so you can spam dark arts on everything for maximum crits and you can't do that without maximum -%mp. There may be times where this skill is sitting waiting to be used with us trying to build up gauge unless blood weapon is used leading into using this skill. However we would have 1 less skill to dump a dark arts on during blood weapon (bloodspiller) because we are trying to store up blood in the first place. It could create a situation where you don't use the MP you are gaining fast enough, even more so if carve and spit/DP went on cooldown just before a blood weapon is used. I don't know if I worded what I'm trying to say as well as I could have.

Edit: If bloodweapon stayed the same, it would actually see more use durring delerium due to recast cooldown and even more darkarts spam.

[Chrono_Rising]

Snip

It took me a hot second to realize the change to dark passenger, and I have to say I think this is one of the better ideas for fixing its current state, and should become a standard of the dark knight kit. oGCD abilities which cost mana, and are not dark arts, should refund their mana cost as blood. It is a simple way to give reason to press the skill without giving it a rediculous potency.

It also inspires this idea for delirium which I think is different enough from inner release, and also dark knight in nature.

Delirium:
All resource usage will result in conversion of half the resource into the opposing resource. Duration:25 seconds. recast: 120 seconds.

Delirium would act like a refund skill converting half of our cost into a source for the other resource.

Example 1: Dark Arts used: 25 blood is restored

Example 2: Bloodspiller used: 1200 mana is restored.

[Chrono_Rising]

I like the suggestions overall, I think that one more change is in order however, if the delirium change were to take place. Right now your second blood weapon effect would end 5 seconds before delirium became active again. And this will continue to happen through out the fight. If a change like this happened I think it would be a good quality of life to have BW and BP be 30 second recasts to line up with delirium use.

Crater beat me to this lol

[Eyvhokan]

I would keep Delerium as is, except make it completely free (apart from the cooldown of course).

In fact, probably that isn't even enough seeing how weak it is. Considering similar abilities are just 'press button, get more damage' with no cost to a damage resource, I don't see why it has that 50 blood cost tacked on apart from giving the something to spend blood on when levelling during 62-63.

[Chrono_Rising]

I like the idea behind delirium but I feel this is warrior territory with inner release. I think more of a dark bend would be to function like a blood weapon but with a greater effect, like doubling the mp returns from our attacks to generate more resources faster and attack with a blind fury.

[Eyvhokan]

25 feels too spammy for a 25 sec duration. But the main thing I don't really feel comfortable with is that it makes it too much an easy 'burst window', while I rather the class be defined to be more of a consistent one (Crater laid out the correct paradigm about how having burst is actually utility so the tank with the highest burst should have the lowest contribution).

What it currently does it give an increase that adds to that consistency (increasing blood weapon time); the main problem is it does it really badly (and really shouldn't cost resource at all currently).

[Chrono_Rising]

25 feels too spammy for a 25 sec duration. But the main thing I don't really feel comfortable with is that it makes it too much an easy 'burst window', while I rather the class be defined to be more of a consistent one (Crater laid out the correct paradigm about how having burst is actually utility so the tank with the highest burst should have the lowest contribution).

What it currently does it give an increase that adds to that consistency (increasing blood weapon time); the main problem is it does it really badly (and really shouldn't cost resource at all currently).

I'm slightly unclear which delirium this is feedback too, I'm guessing me. I don't think this would be spammy since it would involve transforming one resource into another, nor would it provide a major burst since it is not increasing our strength or potencies. The delirium I propose essentially is a different way of slowing our resource cost and extending our lower burst for longer by channeling our resources back and forth. In this way our burst damage remains the same but is sustained for a longer period of time.

As for current delirium, even if we changed the resource cost, this will not significantly change how ridiculously far behind it is compared to the equivalents. The skill effect is its own limiting factor. To provide more potency it would need to extend blood weapon and blood price for even longer, but it already doubles the length of blood price so this cannot be made much longer without clipping into the next blood price. We have room to extend blood weapon for longer, Crater's analysis suggests that delirium would need 4 times the effect that it currently does, this means (assuming the effect is unchanged) it would need to be in effect for 32 seconds total, which clips into our next blood weapon window by 7 seconds, as fun as a straight minute and 2 seconds of blood weapon sounds, this means that for the full benefit of our buffs we would need to keep continuous uptime on the enemy for a full minute, which I think would make content design rather difficult.

[Eyvhokan]

I'm slightly unclear which delirium this is feedback too, I'm guessing me. I don't think this would be spammy since it would involve transforming one resource into another, nor would it provide a major burst since it is not increasing our strength or potencies. The delirium I propose essentially is a different way of slowing our resource cost and extending our lower burst for longer by channeling our resources back and forth. In this way our burst damage remains the same but is sustained for a longer period of time.

As for current delirium, even if we changed the resource cost, this will not significantly change how ridiculously far behind it is compared to the equivalents. The skill effect is its own limiting factor. To provide more potency it would need to extend blood weapon and blood price for even longer, but it already doubles the length of blood price so this cannot be made much longer without clipping into the next blood price. We have room to extend blood weapon for longer, Crater's analysis suggests that delirium would need 4 times the effect that it currently does, this means (assuming the effect is unchanged) it would need to be in effect for 32 seconds total, which clips into our next blood weapon window by 7 seconds, as fun as a straight minute and 2 seconds of blood weapon sounds, this means that for the full benefit of our buffs we would need to keep continuous uptime on the enemy for a full minute, which I think would make content design rather difficult.

I mean spammy by the way that both resources feed into each other, so DA giving blood and Bloodspiller giving MP means they circle into each other on top of normal resource generation (albeit probably not doing the normal SE combo as you're putting in more Bloodspillers).

Though the main issue is it does make it a berserk window.

I can see it working if the numbers are tuned though, so it slows consumption (feeding back half of it is quite a lot).

There's a lot that could be done for Delirium (or it occupies a space that could easily be changed I should say).

Although Delirium is far worse, and doesn't match up to the others, rather than making it on par, they really could buff the passive DRK numbers so DRK is in effect less reliant on their one.

Maybe just increase the DRK passive damage to be on par so it doesn't need a Berserk, and make Delirium more of a utility to play around boss jumps. Basically just a cooldown that ends Blood Weapon but pulls the cooldown of the next blood weapon down by however many seconds it cut it down by. It is a bit underwhelming to have a whole button for though like that, so you could tag on it doing damage as an OCD immediately, so the choice is whether to cut down the Bloodweapon now, or at the end of the duration (but you always want to press it).

[SyzzleSpark]

Maybe just increase the DRK passive damage to be on par so it doesn't need a Berserk, and make Delirium more of a utility to play around boss jumps.

Problem is, and I believe Chrono pointed this out in another thread, the way they'd be most likely to increase passive damage on DRK is by buffing Darkside, something which is already used against us as a point of argument against us needing a buff. That and its just boring.

[Chrono_Rising]

Aye, I did. The other big one used against us is that we have high combo potency already, so why do we need more. Of course this ignores the fact that the other tanks can buff themselves well above darkside, or have just generally higher bursts and similar sustained.