Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 79
  1. #41
    Player
    whiskeybravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,840
    Character
    Whiskey Bravo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Crater View Post
    Under this system, both sides of those issues are addressed: First, the "DPS loss" is offset by literally 50-70x, because the 3-4 average potency you lose by converting 2400 MP to 50 Blood is immediately dwarved by Reprisal itself, for a whopping 210 potency gain.
    It's becoming a bit more clear to me on what your suggestion is. But I'm still not entirely sure on the dps gains. I think the 50 blood gain is a wash because you get 50 blood gain now for TBN breaking, so what you're really losing out is the 2400 MP which could be dark arts+something, either Bloodspiller, Souleater, or Carve & Spit. Average potency increase from DA for these 3 (140+200+350) is 230 potency.
    (0)

  2. #42
    Player
    Chrono_Rising's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    922
    Character
    Gulvioir Muruc
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by whiskeybravo View Post
    It's becoming a bit more clear to me on what your suggestion is. But I'm still not entirely sure on the dps gains. I think the 50 blood gain is a wash because you get 50 blood gain now for TBN breaking, so what you're really losing out is the 2400 MP which could be dark arts+something, either Bloodspiller, Souleater, or Carve & Spit. Average potency increase from DA for these 3 (140+200+350) is 230 potency.
    As you noted: the blood gained is a break even. Any additional effect, in particular one which is oGCD, will offset any loss. TBN => Bloodspiller => oGCD reprisal adding 210 potency off the GCD.

    Dark arts used on any of those moves listed, except C&S is 140 potency. Reprisal as stated would be like gaining a dark arts + half a dark arts ever time you succeed in doing this. This is definitely worth the risk of the bubble not popping. You might only be able to do this every 30 seconds, but personally that would make me use TBN about 3 times more frequently than I did previously.

    I would love to see this change.
    (0)
    Last edited by Chrono_Rising; 10-31-2017 at 11:54 PM.

  3. #43
    Player
    whiskeybravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,840
    Character
    Whiskey Bravo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Oh snap, it is. My bad was looking at DA potency not combo potency for souleater. Too early to be arguing theorycraft lol

    I don't play drk much at all but I'd like to see them in equal demand as war and pld, a 20 sec raid damage reduction is certainly warranted, among other adjustments. Maybe I'm just biased because I didn't really like HW DRK playstyle as much as I wanted to. This idea kinda hearkens back to that rotational juggling, but I'm sure many DRK mains miss it.
    (0)

  4. #44
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Reprisal highlights a problem in the shared role action system. In order to justify making an action shared, it has to provide an essential function that every tank should have equal access to. If the goal was to standardise raid mitigation, then Divine Veil, Passage of Arms, and Shake it Off should not exist. Every tank should use their 5s Reprisal to mitigate raid damage spikes. If the goal was to create diversity, then every tank should have their own unique, but roughly equivalent approach to mitigating raid damage, and Reprisal should not have been shared at all.

    The problem is that the devs have created a tank arms race. You "standardise" the tank actions with Reprisal, but decide to give PLD significantly more raid mitigation on top of that. That's not a standard, it's a double standard. Next thing you know, WAR wants 8-24% raidwide bubble shields. There has been a steady but upwards power creep of both raid and personal mitigation which must needs be offset by higher and higher raid damage, and the remaining tanks are forced to demand even more outrageous cooldowns to stay relevant. The decision to give WAR access Rampart, likewise, was singularly baffling, when Vengeance and Holmgang's absurdly short recasts were based entirely around WAR not having access to the action. Talk about mitigation bloat. Pretty much the only new role action which was handled correctly is Interjection, as nobody has baseline access to a silence.
    (12)

  5. #45
    Player
    SyzzleSpark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    663
    Character
    Pixiline Paradigm
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 66
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    snip
    Agreed that the CR ability system was looking cancerous before 4.0's launch day.

    Lyth, any thoughts on the OP or suggestions to improve upon it? It appears by all accounts to be balanced to most of us, and it would certainly seem to be.
    (0)

  6. #46
    Player
    Crater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    399
    Character
    Jade Nixx
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 90
    I don't think that it was strictly a problem that PLD was the only tank with additional party mitigation tools beyond the cross-role Reprisal (it may have been a problem that role action Reprisal was severely underpowered, or that Paladin didn't have quite enough limitations elsewhere to justify those tools), but it absolutely became a problem once DRK was the only tank that didn't. At this point, it's definitely something that you have to consider mandatory for every tank class to have, or at the very least, DRK would have to become outrageously powerful elsewhere to make up for the deficiency.

    In this instance, though, I think there are a pretty large number of easily identifiable holes in DRK's playstyle and toolkit, and I think that this closes most of those up pretty neatly, while bringing back something that was always fun and meaningful to use on 3.x DRK.

    Edit: Re the cross-role system in general, I'm not sure if I entirely agree with that analysis of it, simply because SE's treatment of it is so schizophrenic and inconsistent that it's hard to say what the actual intended goals for it were, in terms of what sorts of skills should and shouldn't be in that pool.
    (0)

  7. #47
    Player
    SyzzleSpark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    663
    Character
    Pixiline Paradigm
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 66
    Quote Originally Posted by Crater View Post
    Edit: Re the cross-role system in general, I'm not sure if I entirely agree with that analysis of it, simply because SE's treatment of it is so schizophrenic and inconsistent that it's hard to say what the actual intended goals for it were, in terms of what sorts of skills should and shouldn't be in that pool.
    It does frustrate me to no end that DPS roles can function completely independent of cross role, whereas Tanks (and I suppose healers although I have little insight there) cannot. If you left your cross role slots completely EMPTY on a DPS job, in many situations, you might not even notice. Kinda drives home my suspicions that SE's dev team is full of DPS mains with not a clue how to handle balance for other roles.
    (0)

  8. #48
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    I really like the new Reprisal. It rewards good timing, and it feels like you're actively mitigating the attack. If you want to add some potency to it, just give it a Radiant Shield type effect that punishes the mob for doing damage while it's active. Make that Ravensbeak-style explosion count for something.

    Unlike with damage buffs (i.e. Slashing, Piercing, etc.), total uptime isn't all that important for raid mitigation. Your effective uptime matters (i.e. do you have it up for every big hit?) Even having 100% uptime on Reprisal doesn't really add anything extra if you can simply rotate between DV/SiO/PoA on each big hit.

    What makes the new raid mitigation moves scary is that they have the potential to approach Tank LB1 territory, if not surpassing it. I think as a rule of thumb, raid DR should not exceed 10%.
    (0)

  9. #49
    Player
    WhyAmIHere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Gridania/Lominsa
    Posts
    950
    Character
    Mute Shellback
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark View Post
    It does frustrate me to no end that DPS roles can function completely independent of cross role, whereas Tanks (and I suppose healers although I have little insight there) cannot. If you left your cross role slots completely EMPTY on a DPS job, in many situations, you might not even notice. Kinda drives home my suspicions that SE's dev team is full of DPS mains with not a clue how to handle balance for other roles.
    here's my complaint: why the feth can now PLD/WAR/melee DPS root themselves? Honestly, why Tempered Will wasn't made a cross-role ability is beyond me. Tanks should be the immovable objects bosses should be focusing on, and beyond that how many mobs have push-back abilities?
    I support giving DRK back reprisal, and in it's place putting Tempered there as a cross-role.

    If we're gonna look at what X and Y has that Z doesnt, with regards to tanks, this is a first step I feel can be addressed thusly.
    (2)

  10. #50
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark View Post
    It does frustrate me to no end that DPS roles can function completely independent of cross role, whereas Tanks (and I suppose healers although I have little insight there) cannot. If you left your cross role slots completely EMPTY on a DPS job, in many situations, you might not even notice. Kinda drives home my suspicions that SE's dev team is full of DPS mains with not a clue how to handle balance for other roles.
    If I left my cross role slots empty, you'd be getting very angry at me for not dumping threat I'd wager.
    (0)

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast