#BringBackHeavenswardReprisal

[FallenWings]

*Stares longingly into the horizon*

*Remembers the oGCD Juggernaut that deserved the title "Advance Job" that was Heavensward DRK*

#BringBackReprisal

[whiskeybravo]

Oh snap, it is. My bad was looking at DA potency not combo potency for souleater. Too early to be arguing theorycraft lol

I don't play drk much at all but I'd like to see them in equal demand as war and pld, a 20 sec raid damage reduction is certainly warranted, among other adjustments. Maybe I'm just biased because I didn't really like HW DRK playstyle as much as I wanted to. This idea kinda hearkens back to that rotational juggling, but I'm sure many DRK mains miss it.

[Lyth]

Reprisal highlights a problem in the shared role action system. In order to justify making an action shared, it has to provide an essential function that every tank should have equal access to. If the goal was to standardise raid mitigation, then Divine Veil, Passage of Arms, and Shake it Off should not exist. Every tank should use their 5s Reprisal to mitigate raid damage spikes. If the goal was to create diversity, then every tank should have their own unique, but roughly equivalent approach to mitigating raid damage, and Reprisal should not have been shared at all.

The problem is that the devs have created a tank arms race. You "standardise" the tank actions with Reprisal, but decide to give PLD significantly more raid mitigation on top of that. That's not a standard, it's a double standard. Next thing you know, WAR wants 8-24% raidwide bubble shields. There has been a steady but upwards power creep of both raid and personal mitigation which must needs be offset by higher and higher raid damage, and the remaining tanks are forced to demand even more outrageous cooldowns to stay relevant. The decision to give WAR access Rampart, likewise, was singularly baffling, when Vengeance and Holmgang's absurdly short recasts were based entirely around WAR not having access to the action. Talk about mitigation bloat. Pretty much the only new role action which was handled correctly is Interjection, as nobody has baseline access to a silence.

[SyzzleSpark]

snip

Agreed that the CR ability system was looking cancerous before 4.0's launch day.

Lyth, any thoughts on the OP or suggestions to improve upon it? It appears by all accounts to be balanced to most of us, and it would certainly seem to be.

[Crater]

I don't think that it was strictly a problem that PLD was the only tank with additional party mitigation tools beyond the cross-role Reprisal (it may have been a problem that role action Reprisal was severely underpowered, or that Paladin didn't have quite enough limitations elsewhere to justify those tools), but it absolutely became a problem once DRK was the only tank that didn't. At this point, it's definitely something that you have to consider mandatory for every tank class to have, or at the very least, DRK would have to become outrageously powerful elsewhere to make up for the deficiency.

In this instance, though, I think there are a pretty large number of easily identifiable holes in DRK's playstyle and toolkit, and I think that this closes most of those up pretty neatly, while bringing back something that was always fun and meaningful to use on 3.x DRK.

Edit: Re the cross-role system in general, I'm not sure if I entirely agree with that analysis of it, simply because SE's treatment of it is so schizophrenic and inconsistent that it's hard to say what the actual intended goals for it were, in terms of what sorts of skills should and shouldn't be in that pool.

[SyzzleSpark]

Edit: Re the cross-role system in general, I'm not sure if I entirely agree with that analysis of it, simply because SE's treatment of it is so schizophrenic and inconsistent that it's hard to say what the actual intended goals for it were, in terms of what sorts of skills should and shouldn't be in that pool.

It does frustrate me to no end that DPS roles can function completely independent of cross role, whereas Tanks (and I suppose healers although I have little insight there) cannot. If you left your cross role slots completely EMPTY on a DPS job, in many situations, you might not even notice. Kinda drives home my suspicions that SE's dev team is full of DPS mains with not a clue how to handle balance for other roles.

[WhyAmIHere]

It does frustrate me to no end that DPS roles can function completely independent of cross role, whereas Tanks (and I suppose healers although I have little insight there) cannot. If you left your cross role slots completely EMPTY on a DPS job, in many situations, you might not even notice. Kinda drives home my suspicions that SE's dev team is full of DPS mains with not a clue how to handle balance for other roles.

here's my complaint: why the feth can now PLD/WAR/melee DPS root themselves? Honestly, why Tempered Will wasn't made a cross-role ability is beyond me. Tanks should be the immovable objects bosses should be focusing on, and beyond that how many mobs have push-back abilities?
I support giving DRK back reprisal, and in it's place putting Tempered there as a cross-role.

If we're gonna look at what X and Y has that Z doesnt, with regards to tanks, this is a first step I feel can be addressed thusly.

[Kabooa]

It does frustrate me to no end that DPS roles can function completely independent of cross role, whereas Tanks (and I suppose healers although I have little insight there) cannot. If you left your cross role slots completely EMPTY on a DPS job, in many situations, you might not even notice. Kinda drives home my suspicions that SE's dev team is full of DPS mains with not a clue how to handle balance for other roles.

If I left my cross role slots empty, you'd be getting very angry at me for not dumping threat I'd wager.

[SyzzleSpark]

If I left my cross role slots empty, you'd be getting very angry at me for not dumping threat I'd wager.

Very true. However in most cases DPS don't have DPS cooldowns in CR, certainly nothing on the level of value of something like Rampart or Provoke. I know there's niche things such as Addle that the above poster mentioned, as well. Still not something of the kind of weight that you see abilities in tank/healer CR carrying, in my opinion.

[Kabooa]

Still not something of the kind of weight that you see abilities in tank/healer CR carrying, in my opinion.

I'm going to agree there is a large consistency issue in Role abilities and how they are set up. Namely that mandatory abilities are in here but they are not granted, they are chosen.

Across every role there are simply required abilities and at that point, they might as well be granted through the job system even without adding job specific animation / flavor. No tank will skip over rampart or provoke, no healer/caster will skip over Lucid Dreaming / Swiftcast, no DPS will skip over diversion, etc.

It creates this odd dynamic because many of the role abilities simply aren't useful. I'd argue as many as half across every role. Perhaps more, but then you hit the "I guess I take these because it's not as useless as those" scenarios.