#BringBackHeavenswardReprisal

[whiskeybravo]

Nah, seems to be the opposite direction devs want to go. Reprisal is useful now because it's only for raid mitigation. Give DRK back reprisal w/ damage it will be used for DPS instead of for raid mitigation. Kinda defeats the purpose..

I agree there needs to be changes but I don't see this doing the job. I'd rather them just give DRK their own off-GCD filler dps move than try to re-purpose reprisal again.

[Mycow8me]

So its a proc mitigation...? I could see this happening maybe for giving DRK a -10% vuln buff but as a party utility hoping you get a proc for when its needed would be kinda silly unless the boss uses alot of raid wides frequently throughout a fight. I never got the 3.x experience as stated already so I don't know but proc mitigation sounds kinda "nice to have" but may not be ready "when you need it".

My opinion on this doesn't hold nearly as much weight without the 3.x experience but from what I'm hearing about how it works now... I'm kinda turned off to it.

Edit: That animation and sound it makes is really badass though, I wish they'd replace carve and spit with it unless they are saving it for a skill like insurgency in the future or something IDK.

[Crater]

It was a proc that worked exactly the way that Shield Swipe works, except with Parries instead of Blocks, and twice the cooldown. The skill itself applied a 20s duration debuff that reduced the target's outgoing damage by 10%.

The reason it was removed was likely not because it was similar to Delirium/Halone/Storm's Path (the main issue with those skills was that Path stacked with the other two, but the other two were mutually exclusive), but because, in SE's words, they wanted all of the tanks to perform well in both a main-tank and an off-tank role. Since Reprisal was a significant source of DPS, only procced on a Parry, and you could only Parry while main-tanking, the old design wasn't compatible with the idea of DRK being able to off-tank.

Changing it to also proc on a TBN break is the solution that allows Reprisal to be reintroduced without compromising that design, as it would be available in either tanking 'role'.


Past that, I believe I've made the case for why it would be an appropriate skill to reintroduce to DRK, given the current state of balance, and how many of DRK's disparate issues it would address.

[WhyAmIHere]

So its a proc mitigation...? I could see this happening maybe for giving DRK a -10% vuln buff but as a party utility hoping you get a proc for when its needed would be kinda silly unless the boss uses alot of raid wides frequently throughout a fight. I never got the 3.x experience as stated already so I don't know but proc mitigation sounds kinda "nice to have" but may not be ready "when you need it".

My opinion on this doesn't hold nearly as much weight without the 3.x experience but from what I'm hearing about how it works now... I'm kinda turned off to it.

Edit: That animation and sound it makes is really badass though, I wish they'd replace carve and spit with it unless they are saving it for a skill like insurgency in the future or something IDK.

here ya go. https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/inde...sal&oldid=9057
This is what reprisal used to be. After a parry, 10% damage down for 20s, with a 60s recast. 210 Potency. DRK obtained it at lvl22, so it had uses in lower-level dungeons and content.
So, it's not even like it was that useful when a DRK was OT'ing, unless you happened to parry a raid-wide AoE, or on adds as best I can recall. Asking to have it returned, but have a broken TBN proc it would allow it to have uses while a DRK is OT'ing.

[Nivarea]

I don't see how bringing back the old reprisal is a problem concerning balance. I've seen that some fear that it would make DRK mendatory, but I doubt it would. I mean, PLD have a constant chance of blocking hits with their shield fot free, and nobody see it as a problem. They can use passage of arms and Divine Veil to help soak big splash damage, and it's really rare that both of em are on CD when that happens, and EVEN in the case they are, there's still role action's reprisal. Concerning WAR, they have Shake it off, which got a relatively short CD, and on their personnal level, for progression, remember that Defiance has a passive augmentation of parry the more gauge they got. It's not a great utility, WAR is rarely at max gauge, but it's here.

Old Reprisal was the equivalent of Paladin's shield in HW, explaining why they got less mitigation tools than other tanks. It can't be applied when the boss is not targetable, and it has not a 100% uptime, because of its CD and the problem of activating it with a proc. So really, it's already a well balanced skill, and would actually make using TBN as an offtank worth it everytime, contrary of what it is today, where it's not clear if it's worth the cost or not.

And the problem with DPS is not really one, because DRK is already lagging behind in this regard. The idea is to help mitigating fluff damage, which is one of the biggest problem with the mitigation tools we got as of now, the DPS gain is a nice bonus, akin to Shield Swipe for exemple, and got a similar situation wher it procs from blocks, and can be triggered with shieltron.

[Crater]

Nah, seems to be the opposite direction devs want to go. Reprisal is useful now because it's only for raid mitigation. Give DRK back reprisal w/ damage it will be used for DPS instead of for raid mitigation. Kinda defeats the purpose..

I dunno, do you consider it a problem that DRK uses Plunge for DPS even though it's a gap-closer? Because this would be more or less the same thing.

If you don't specifically need the utility of Plunge's mobility, then you use it as often as possible to maximize DPS, but if the mobility is an important factor for a specific part of a specific fight, then you'll usually hold Plunge to use for its mobility, if you're gaining more than you'd be losing by holding it.

Reprisal would work the same way. On most fights, you would aim to use it as often as possible, either by slotting Anticipation to boost your Parry rate (imagine that, by the way: an actual reason to ever slot Anticipation!), or by strategically breaking a TBN to activate Reprisal. But if mitigating raid damage (or even a tankbuster) was a primary concern, then you could just hold off for a few seconds and leave it off-cooldown, even if it does proc, so that you have it available when you need it.

I think DRK has enough bad/useless skills that it would be a good thing to have an extra one that is always good for DPS, even in cases where it's only sometimes useful for utility/mitigation.

[Valdegarde]

One thing I'd like to point out is that using TBN to proc Reprisal for a given attack has some implications. In many situations you would have TBN up for a really big attack, OR Reprisal, not both. This I believe is a good thing and has more balance, letting one or the other take care of the myriad amounts of damage that occurs BETWEEN TBN usage, not in addition to TBN. Unless I'm misunderstanding the way this proposed relationship works, it wouldn't be an issue to not use it on cooldown for DPS anyway, considering the duration would act as minor mitigation until your next TBN is ready again.
Using, say, Halicarnassus as an example (mostly since I'm learning her on Dark Knight now), you might want TBN broken on the Critical Hit, which procs Reprisal to help a little bit with subsequent auto attacks and maybe a dimensional wave or two. I don't believe this is overpowered in any way and makes Dark Knight more competitive for a tank spot than it is currently.

[Mycow8me]

I think i see what you mean and it would make a good dps increase and make people want to use TBN more. The question is, would it function well as a party utility and to me that's a 10% mitigation party utility that you can't use when you may "want" to use it.

It would be great for a DPS gain on DRKs and we currently have the lowest amount of skills among the tanks so having one gained back to us would not hurt in the slightest. I don't think the -10% outgoing damage is necessary but I wouldn't complain if SE found a way to balance this and the community doesn't develop some kind of "must have" for it. I would hope we get a true party mitigation tool of some kind though that we can use freely at our discretion at some point if not now, maybe 5.0...

[SummerScorcher]

I love the idea, it's the awesome Reprisal from 3.x and makes sure you're not forced to main-tank-- unless you're in an alliance raid, since you can't use TBN on players other than your party members. I think to synergize even more with this reimplementation, TBN should be usable on players that are not in your party, much like Clemency. In Rabanastre I (too)often see players who don't move to the other side when Hashmal does his fiery arm attack, and I wish I could use TBN to hopefully save them (but I can't because it doesn't work on alliance members). In a situation like that it could be used to prepare your Reprisal for when the boss jumps back into the arena.

[InfiniDragon]

Nah, seems to be the opposite direction devs want to go. Reprisal is useful now because it's only for raid mitigation. Give DRK back reprisal w/ damage it will be used for DPS instead of for raid mitigation. Kinda defeats the purpose..

I agree there needs to be changes but I don't see this doing the job. I'd rather them just give DRK their own off-GCD filler dps move than try to re-purpose reprisal again.

I see what you mean, but I think it's mainly there to cover DRK's lacking mitigation rather than just to add party utility (even though this would definitely also do that).

Besides, if it doing damage is the concern (leading to it being used for damage over mitigation) they could just do my idea (make TBN debuff the one that breaks the shield) without damage and add the needed DPS somewhere else.

(Although I know people would rather have Crater's version because Reprisal looks awesome haha)