New DPS Job Idea - Time Mage!

[arctanx]

@Eloah,

I was posting the idea as an intellectual exercise, not to get it implemented. That being said, I'm fairly certain they have not said Astrologian is this game's time mage. Time Mage in FF has never been a healer and AST only has 2-3 time-related abilities. As I've mentioned several times in the thread so far, consider Astrologian an astrologer who dabbles in time magic, and a Time Mage a master of time magic itself. As for the name ideas, SE can choose whatever names they like, but I like the names I picked. I picked them for a reason.


To your consistency/explanation idea, I think I've given much more explanation than was necessary. I think Armageddon Counter was explained well in the first post. It builds from 1 to 10 when Prophetic Blow I, II, or III is used. After PB is used, the Armageddon Counter has a chance of activating equal to its level times 10%. If it activates, it resets to 0 then unleashes one PB attack (of the same level that activated it) for each Level the Counter had. So its a massive burst of (low) damage, but when 5, 6, 7, or 10 attacks come at once, it's a very potent burst of damage. So individual attacks of Time Mage are meant to be weakest in DPS, but in short bursts, it'd be the highest.


The MP cost on Abilities was an oversight. Time Mage is meant to primarily help the party and is supposed to have few ways to damage. The rotation for damage is simpler than most other jobs but gets slightly more complex at higher levels. And Time Shield can indeed kill a party member, but that's obviously not the intended use. They are nice uses for Time Shield I and II if you think about it.

And I'm not sure what you mean about the traits. They're pretty basic traits and make the job a lot more usable.

Please feel free to reply.

[Eloah]

@arctanx

Okay so I apologize in advance if any of this sounds mean; again its not intended but can come across as such.

In regards to the AST being the Time Mage of FFXIV, it was mentioned but it wasn't like someone asked a question, it was a passing response that was part of another question about future jobs/why certain jobs were implemented. A more accurate way of stating his response would be "when thinking what jobs we could implement we've had several requests for Job-A, Job-B, or Time Mage, but we thought Time Mage might be to similar to AST." It's not that it was stated outright no Time Mage, it was more like they aren't implementing it (yet) because they have't figured out how to differentiate it from AST. That being said I must repeat that your explanation mimics Astrologian's by wide margin.

As for the explanation with Armageddon Counter, I will admit I missed the gray text explaining it.

But going to the abilities. Based on your brief explanation here and the one I reread on page 1, your essentially making an RNG mage, which is basically how AST was when they were first implemented. You are stating that they are primarily supposed to support the party, which is fine, but they are primarily a DPS and they don't have a backing to be one with their low potencies, which match healers more

As for abilities like Time Shield, just remember there is a reason they changed barrier skills the way they have. And as far as traits go, some are okay but the ones that relate to action length and cooldown times are no longer a thing with the recent 4.0 overhaul. Granted you don't have to make the traits fit the currant game design, but it helps anyone reading if they can picture it in the game without a drastic break to the system. Admittedly Traits wont do that.

Again, I'm not trying to be mean just supportive with a critical eye.

[Ceallach]

snip

There's a reason only tanks have actions that allow them to outright avoid death. There's also a reason for their high recasts. To give a DPS basically the same action would be too strong. If you want an action that "turns back the clock" on a player, I'd say give the time mage an inverted form of the machinist's Wildfire. Let's say it's a two-minute recast that gives a ten-second status to a target party member (not yourself or a pet). As long as that player doesn't die within that time, it keeps track of all the damage that players takes from all sources, then heals for that amount at the end of the ten seconds.

[arctanx]

@Eloah, Time Mage (as designed by me) is meant to be the lowest DPS damage rate with individual attacks, but the burst damage more than makes up for it. Several of its attacks can easily have the highest output in the entire game under the right circumstances. And the Armageddon Counter is a massive source of damage output.

@Ceallach, your idea is essentially a stronger version of Time Shield as is, and I don't want to explicitly give the job a healing move. I've adjusted the move as follows now: It "partially turns back time" by resurrecting the target in a weakened state at 5% HP. This makes it much less powerful but basically gives Time Mage a resurrect move that can be cast before death. Feedback appreciated.

[Ceallach]

@Ceallach, your idea is essentially a stronger version of Time Shield as is, and I don't want to explicitly give the job a healing move. I've adjusted the move as follows now: It "partially turns back time" by resurrecting the target in a weakened state at 5% HP. This makes it much less powerful but basically gives Time Mage a resurrect move that can be cast before death. Feedback appreciated.

My idea wasn't meant to be implemented as-is. I meant it as an example, or a way to inspire ideas. What you're talking about is basically just Raise, which would be okay (it would make three of four DPS Disciples of Magic with such a spell), but you know how a paladin's Hallowed Ground takes a moment to kick in? So should this.

[Eloah]

@Eloah, Time Mage (as designed by me) is meant to be the lowest DPS damage rate with individual attacks, but the burst damage more than makes up for it. Several of its attacks can easily have the highest output in the entire game under the right circumstances. And the Armageddon Counter is a massive source of damage output.

The key to what you said is "under the right circumstances". If history has taught us anything, it's that the player base does not want abilities that are so niche they are nearly useless. The whole of circumstance and RNG needed moves is one of the reasons why certain jobs had an issue when going into 4.0, DRK and MCH come to mind based on what i've seen, but I can't say I've experienced it myself; it's also one of the primary reasons enochian got changed. Also out of curiosity why does the counter have to be "activated" wouldn't the move just add 1 to the counter.

My personal suggestion would maybe be to make the counter similar to the tank gauges, and using certain moves ups the counter, then you can spend parts of the counter to use on certain skills, attacks, heals, buffs, etc. You could also make a full counter act similar to MCH's, in that if it goes to its max level it gives you a buff that increases your DPS output. But that's my interpretation, you might have something else in mind. Also, unless I missed it you have no AoE, and sadly your level 68 action does not count, as its too "timed" to do any significant damage and given too late.

[Joe777]

Geomancers are pretty different from Astros from what we saw in the job quests. But they're prettt much identical to Conjurers and so are White Mages now.

Astrologians picked up Earthly Star from Geomancy, or at least it makes sense that they did.

[arctanx]

@Eloah, clearly you aren't simulating it correctly in your Head. Do Prophetic Blow I, Apocalyptic Warnings, and Prophetic Blow III (just for instance)...You then have an attack of 100, an attack of 200, then 6 near-instant attacks of 200 potency all at once. That's very high DPS and requires little to no setup. Even if you don't have PB3 yet, doing PB1 a few times, then PB2 will still give you a rain of 4-5 or more attacks of 150 potency at once. That damage adds up very fast. I don't think there's a problem with the damage rates here. And I like the rng-component, it adds a uniqueness to the job. I understand that other jobs are more predictable, but I don't want it like that. And the RNG-component actually matters very little. You'd still have rains of high-DPS attacks coming every 10-20 seconds anyway, and this would be more than enough to set it on-par with other DPS roles.

[Eloah]

snip

If that's the case then it's similar to my suggestion, and then becomes a consistent inconsistency; similar to how Aetherflow is for SCH now. My suggestion for you then would be to make a skill that executes it, like Doom, Eschaton, or dare I say Armageddon, lol. You could then make Prophetic Blow the replacement skill, like Bio, Stone, Broil, etc. and this would free up some space for either more attacks or more utility. You've also had some other good points shown that you may want to consider. Time Reversal being too much like the clutch tank skills, Maybe making it a Raise would be better. Time Shied being a damaging move on enemies and a heal on allies, similar to Wildfire and Excognition. Making Spacetime Parry similar to Jump (warp in warp out). Stuff like that.

But in the end this is all your idea, we are just trying to offer suggestions based on what we have seen. Similar to what i said in my first post, I would suggest going back and fine tuning what you have, not to implement our ideas or anything, but to make the adjustments you yourself said weren't supposed to be there or were missing; spells that have cooldowns, missing potencies (poison), and missing ranges, radii, and duration.

Oh one last thing. For their weapon, I think the timepiece you wanna reference is a Chronometer.

[Valdegarde]

Astrologian conceptually is most similar to Warren and Orran Durai from the Ogre Battle series and Final Fantasy Tactics. Their jobs are, respectively, Astromancer and Astrologer. Astral Stasis, Orran's signature attack, is even in FFXIV as a unique limit break.
In FFXIV, Astrologian is a field of study in-game with magical properties that is based on time and space interactions.

If you look closely at the astrologists in Coerthas Central Highlands, they are in fact wearing the traditional Time Mage garb. Astrologians being an evolution of that paints a pretty clear picture, and if not consider the original translations for some of their ability names.
In the Japanese version, Stella is Don't Move, Disable is (was) Don't Act, and Swiftcast (while not unique to Astrologian) is Quick. When including Time Dilation and Lightspeed, and their space themed abilities (Time Mage was always, always in Final Fantasy implied to be proficient in Time AND Space magic) Gravity, Combust, Malefic, (one could argue Celestial Opposition), you can see that Astrologians are primarily classic Time Mages with Warren's cards and the nocturnal/diurnal healing system unique to FFXIV.
I wouldn't mind an offensive/support caster true Time Mage class too, but the evidence is pretty damning that Astrologian is what we've got.

Geomancer on the other hand is much trickier...the Astrologian quests paint them as a unique separate job altogether, but it's not known how much they and Astrologian overlap.