Hydaelyn and Elementals

[VayaTruesong]

Out of curiosity, is there anywhere in game that mentions the relationship between Hydaelyn and the Elemental of Blackshroud? As a WHM main, it always irks me whenever I ran back the CNJ guild and saw that one Conjure refusing to heal a 12 years girl because of the will of Elemental. So I have been wondering, if my WoL said "screw this" and cured that girl, would the Elemental be able to rain its wrath down on me even when I am the agent of big mother nature herself?

[Anonymoose]

tl;dr Nope.

We know the elementals pre-date Amdapor, but not much else. One of the core world-setting features of Gridania is that they believe the elementals to be fragments of Nophica Herself. This belief only exists in the Twelveswood even though elementals have been seen elsewhere in the past.

The original White Mage scenario in 1.x was about a great spirit of the wood named Oha-sok (the elemental of nihility) that took responsibility for bringing the Sixth Umbral Calamity by causing the keening of the elementals (crying out in wrath until they all are doing so) which brought the rains and floods.

My way of reconciling this has been to assume that the elementals are a sort of anomaly in the Lifestream itself, (perhaps accidental, perhaps not) coalescences of living aether that share a connection and a bond to both the land and the stream; that they're aether experiencing itself subjectively.

This would explain all of the inconsistencies between historical records and the elementals' point of view. The rampant use of magicks would "shackle" the elementals (weaving too much aether into spellwork and hurting the land and environmental balance), and their "keening" (aetherial instability) would lead to them them to "causing" (giving way to) the Calamity. It explains their instability, inability to control themselves when imbalanced, and why they go out of control and lash out when put under pressure or isolation (much like a bound primal). It explains why they can use magicks themselves and how they have so much control over forest growth and ability to interfere with living organisms, either leaving tainted traces upon them that cause forest-born entities to seek vengeance (greenwrath) to punish them for violations of the forest's health and stability (woodsin) or outright altering their being to screw with their memories and prevent them from leaving the wood (wildlings).

[Naria]

Maybe they wouldn't be able to touch you as the WoL, but that wouldn't stop them from taking their anger out on Gridania.

The 1.0 Gridania quests gave a bit more insight into the elementals thought processes--they don't view things the same way as humans. While individual elementals may learn to be more discriminating to most of them there is no difference between a child and an adult, just those that keep the pact and those that don't. Moreover 1.0 showed that the elementals can attack those in the vicinity or associated with individuals who anger them even if those people are innocent. If a conjurer (or a whm who only knows that magic because of the elementals' approval) went against the elementals when their entire purpose is to interpret the will of the elementals and facilitate man's elemental approved usage of the Shroud and the elementals were unable to punish the violator because the were protected by Hydaelyn they wouldn't just give up. The could end up attacking the other conjurers, the guild, the girl and her family, perhaps even declare that the pact that lets Gridania exist void (although to be fair the seedseers wouldn't let it get that far, but if this hypothetically extreme situation did happen you can bet that the WoL would no longer be welcome in Gridania.)

The elementals have been weakened by the Calamity, but at their full strength they are capable of causing a Calamity (Oha-sok was almost also the cause of the Seventh Calamity, not Bahamut). There is no evidence so far that their current infirmity is permanent.

So yes the WoL might risk all of that to save the life of one child, but to expect the conjurers guild to is unrealistic. It is a disheartening truth but one I think adds weight to the game world. The elementals aren't paper tigers and those that would live in their territory have to do so by their rules. As a result they have developed a moral system that we (and even other Eorzeans) find abhorrent but it exists way for other reasons than just cowardice.

My character is from Gridania because back at 1.0 launch I was like "ohh pretty magic forest!" I've become attached to it in game, but if I actually lived in Eorzea Gridania would probably be the last city I'd want to live in. The other city-states have their (huge) problems but they are human problems that can be more easily understood. The elementals seem exist to pretty much to subvert the "ohh pretty magic forest!" trope that inspired me to pick Gridania as a starting city in the first place.

[BillyKaplan]

Most 'pretty magic forest' legends in actual foklore are anything but pleasant. The Fae are to be feared and revered and are fickle and petty besides. The Elementals seem to be a variation of those aspects, while still arguably a force of good as they protect the forest and the balance within - though that too can be seen as nothing but selfishness on their part as that is their home and likely their life force. To put it simply, they probably need humans in the forest so that's why we're there, and breaking the rules means we've outlived our usefulness and that's why they punish us - because why not?

I agree that while they probably wouldn't be able to harm the WoL directly, they can and will force Gridania's hand into exiling you or punishing you themselves in some other manner, and that's something the Mothercrystal can't protect you from. In that sense they're very similar to Omega - you can't protect everyone everywhere all the time, so you can't do anything but obey.

[Naria]

Oh I definitely get that "pretty magic forest" is an invention of the modern fantasy genre--actual fairy tales and folklore are very different then the modern stories that were inspired by them. But I think part of the reason that people sometimes don't understand the nature of the relationship between Gridania and the elementals is that they tend to default to seeing it through a more mainstream modern fantasy lens. The other reason being that the elementals are a lot less present in Eorzea 2.0+ than they were in 1.0 and the game doesn't hammer home as much how truly dangerous they are.

[BillyKaplan]

I'dd add that most of our interaction with the Elementals is through the CNJ/WHM lens. Yes, there's that text bubble, and an entire quest where you save an Ala Mhigan refugee, but for the most part the Elementals actually help you and work with you towards the common goal of preserving the forest.
Though now that I think about it, I don't recall suffering any consequences for saving that refugee. IIRC our status as outsiders does grant us some measure of protection, though I suspect that has to do with the severity of the crime, and we're not untouchable.