Monk suggestions

[Llugen]

Fists of Earth is used by top tier monks to reduce incoming damage for 1-2 GCDs to survive during progression
Tornado kick could use some love but it's absolutely useful for dumping stacks and doing high damage before large downtime (grand cross omega, possibly animal farm, possibly even -100 Gs if your Perfect Balance is already back up though I don't know that one for sure)
Arm of the Destroyer is still aoe damage that is stronger than Bootshine/Dragon Kick on 5ish targets
Purification means more TP for more aoe damage, see also: use Arm of the Destroyer when it's more potency
Tackle Mastery gave you a potency buff to shoulder tackle as Mr Happy preaches endlessly
One-Ilm Punch..... is still pretty useless. I'll give you that one.


So, tell me what Freeze and Blizzard II and Sleep are good for when mobs just resist the status disorders? I'm not saying that these aren't issues that SE should address, but having useless skills is pretty common around here, and apparently less skills are useless than you realize.

[SpeckledBurd]

-blep-

You're only proving you don't know what you're talking about.

Fists of Earth is not used to survive in progression because the tradeoff for 5% DPS isn't worth gaining marginal survivability against attacks we can already survive. Either the mitigation put up is sufficient for you to survive or you're dead. You used to be able to use it to recover if you had Weakness/Brink of Death and outgoing damage actually could kill you but that's a thing of the path.
Arm of the Destroyer's TP cost is massive compared to how little damage it does. You can say that it's a DPS gain in 5+ targets, but the gain is so marginal for how much TP it costs that in the long run its better to just use bootshine. The number of AOE situations where it should actually be used can be counted on one finger.
Purification: See Arm of the Destroyer's rebuttal. And, even in the one pull where Arm of the Destroyer is warranted even if you do use it you still often don't need it if your other DPS is pulling their weight or if they at least have the good courtesy to throw you a goad/tactician.
Tornado Kick: The situations where it actually can be used for a gain can be counted on one hand.
Tackle Mastery: They didn't need an entire trait to add 30 potency to an attack, they can just stick 30 potency onto it whenever. They've literally piled potency onto other jobs without ever having to do that. It is the definition of useless. They did not need to waste on of Monk's new traits/actions to do that. In fact making it add potency to Fists of Fire actively makes the issue with the Fist Stances worse. It's designed to be an appeal towards the fist stances being useful when they flat out aren't when the devs couldn't be assed to actually fix them.

Sure, Freeze and Blizzard II are useless. So is Repose on White Mage. That still doesn't make Black Mage's kit even a third as asinine as Monks. Do you have to potentially stand in an AOE that will give you a vuln stack so you have a chance at saving your Enochian, even though its entirely possible for it to just fall off before you get hit? No you just have to spam Transpose. And if that exact mechanic happens within a minute (cough third boss of Rabanastere cough) you don't just get dicked by the fight.

Does Black Mage have anything nearly as useless as One Ilm Punch? As the Fist Stances? Is Enochian nearly as inconvenient to maintain as Greased Lightning? Is the skill you use to restore Enochian in the event of catastrophe on a 3 minute cool down? Does Black Mage have stances that serve no purpose? Does Black mage have traits which at their most useful do something that actively makes an issue that has long been complained about worse? Is Black Mages capstone skill so utterly dependent on party composition that the mere act of using it in a 4-Man guaranteed to make it seem like a flub?

I'm not denying that Black Mage doesn't have issues, but if you want to pretend that Monk's issues with its kit, that have existed for pretty much as long as ARR mind you, are non-existent you're flat out lying to people.

[Alexalibur]

But, this thread is about MNK, not BLM. BLM has 4 skills that are useless and are all old skills, but this expansion they got about 4 mandatory skills/traits (Umbral hearts could use some change though) in Thunder IV, Foul, UH and Triplecast. Between the lines is niche at best, but look at MNK's kit. This expansion they got no new attacks (the only DPS job that didn't, mind you), three niche tackles where only one of them is used (boring as hell), Brotherhood (very composition dependent), Riddle of Fire (good skill, but not a community-favourite), Riddle of Earth (kinda good, but goes against Tornado Kick), while removing good skills like ToD and not touching skills like PB (seriously 3 minutes is way too long), Tornado Kick and a bunch of others Burd mentioned in their post.

Niche skills aren't bad, but when 50% of your kit is niche, it becomes a problem.

[Conna]

So, tell me what Freeze and Blizzard II and Sleep are good for when mobs just resist the status disorders? I'm not saying that these aren't issues that SE should address, but having useless skills is pretty common around here, and apparently less skills are useless than you realize.

Fine since were being petty i'll help you <3. If youre soloing in open world you could use freeze on them, or blizzard II or sleep and those mobs wouldn't resist so there ya go oh and you can scathe to damage while moving! See those aren't actually useless they're "situational" <3

[Llugen]

You didn't even successfully refute a single one of my points lol

I don't need to fight with you about this, but you should probably take a long hard look at your skills and determine which of them are actually useless because many of them are not. Situational, sure, but not useless.

You are right, though. I apologize for derailing the thread and ruler-comparing it to BLM. I only meant to point out that there are many jobs that have less-than-useful skills (if not all of them).

Monk is the job whose design has changed the least over the course of this game. If anything I'd say that means that they had good design from the very beginning and they are simply staying true to what they had in mind. It is lamentable that they still haven't learned from the deleteMNK mentality about jobs needing utility, though.

[SpeckledBurd]

You didn't even successfully refute a single one of my points lol

I don't need to fight with you about this, but you should probably take a long hard look at your skills and determine which of them are actually useless because many of them are not. Situational, sure, but not useless.

You are right, though. I apologize for derailing the thread and ruler-comparing it to BLM. I only meant to point out that there are many jobs that have less-than-useful skills (if not all of them).

You're wrong and you fundamentally don't understand Monk. Most of your points are would be like saying "Scathe is useful because it lets you DPS while moving".

[Llugen]

You just admitted yourself that your skills have uses. You might not LIKE them, but they have them, period. Lack of AOE damage is something that the caster pool also suffers from (or forced AOE limit break, even worse). Fists of Earth is NOT a thing of the past, in case you forgot Unending Coil just came out, so who knows where 10% damage reduction (the same as your own personal sacred soil or collective unconscious, mind you) might be useful for a few GCDs. Don't say that I fundamentally don't understand the class because you are too short-sighted to understand how your tools work.

[SpeckledBurd]

You just admitted yourself that your skills have uses. You might not LIKE them, but they have them, period. Lack of AOE damage is something that the caster pool also suffers from (or forced AOE limit break, even worse). Fists of Earth is NOT a thing of the past, in case you forgot Unending Coil just came out, so who knows where 10% damage reduction (the same as your own personal sacred soil or collective unconscious, mind you) might be useful for a few GCDs. Don't say that I fundamentally don't understand the class because you are too short-sighted to understand how your tools work.

Scathe can be used to DPS while moving, don't be too short sighted to understand how your tools work.

[Llugen]

Stretching pretty hard dude. Potency loss between Fire IV and Scathe is 368. Your potency loss on two GCDs without Fists of Fire is significantly less than that, not to mention you don't have to deal with any cast times. But nice try.

Tackle Mastery could use some love but it's still a potency increase. Your job is very strong, and like I said before, the biggest thing that is wrong with it is that DRG is just too good for synergy with BRD/MCH and NIN is a given. You don't not deserve quality of life, but there are other areas of other jobs that need fixing a lot more.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Monk is doing really well, I promise.

This is something only someone that doesn't play Monk can say.

Aside from it's issues in balance (utility being extremely weak, damage not enough to fill the gap), they are currently extremely clunky to actually play.
RoF is made with the idea that you'll get plenty of Forbidden Chakra in that window, but RNG is cruel and the fact that it should NEVER be a core aspect of a jobs kit is made apparent here. Not getting a single FC is very common, especially in 4 man's, or pugs where you could potentially get two casters.
So you end up with a skill that slows you down to a crawl with no benefits but hitting harder, which no Monk enjoys.

Then there's the issues with the tackles. To put it simply, it's all useless. Every one of them. You'll never leave Fire Stance. I thought they were deleting bloat skills not adding them? Then there's Riddle of Earth...Sigh.