Built-in Parsers

[BigRed5392]

stuff

that was an outliner group. I did say trolls exist on jp side. Most my experiences have been plesent. in fact most my coil wins were on jp. I was on tonberry. Never had an issue with jp players, most are more pleasent then ppl like you.

you got stuff to back up your statement? proof im false cuz all I see is "what ifs" you not giving full details to your hyperbole.

I suggest you get a ps4, log into DCUO it has a built in parser. play for 3 mnths and see how it is.

and lastly, i got 30+ mmo under my belt, i got 10 years of mmo under my belt. I was playing them before parsers were a thing, how do you think people did end game?

everything you stated requires 0 parser. More team communication. You enjoy cherry picking my posts btw. I stated my examples from actual experience. I'm not seeing experience from you just "what if".

i actually do said content jusy not at the moment, and i skipped alexander S because it simply wasn't my thing. I'm ps4 and tbh, never wiped my pt. so please.. grow up and stop being an E. never in mmo is 1 person at fault for 8 ppl dying. everyone has their fair share in the blame, no matter what "examples" you try to use, you are missing details on how/why that even happen. just pointing out the end result.

Which is what you guys like doing, making examples but leaving details out.

such as did anyone communicate a strategy? Did anyone give tanks a heads up on what to mitigate, and roughly around when? (fights are scripted by hp%)


also please point out where i said parser are bad? I never said that. I said user made parser have a margin of error due to errors in coding, not being able to get extract damage algorithms.
All i said is you don't need a parser to get better, which is the argument i hate that people toss around. People act like if you don't parse by default you suck.

May want to stop cherry picking my posts and actually read/consider what i actually said.

[Shurrikhan]

This statement posits the notion parses should remain unseen simply due to the off chance they may be abused. If that is to be your stance, you have to equally be against the Vote Kick/Abandon system as it can and is abused. Any argument otherwise would be hypocritical unless you agree tools do not directly correlate towards toxic behavior; i.e someone parsing has no direct bearing on whether they will treat others poorly. Of course, by doing so, your original argument loses all validity. So...

That is but a single example you appear to have missed. Perhaps you shouldn't be throwing around words like hand-wave and ad hominem when you're very much guilty of both.

This.

Note that a Vote Kick can be used to allow friends a quick daily Roulette bonus, at the expense of the replaced member's. Any of various false reasons can be given, but as each reason also lows for an underlying warrant in "difference in playstyle", these are essentially permitted distortions.

Similarly, players can be kicked or berated on the suspicion that their damage is low, where that suspicion may be misplaced. I was recently told that I must be the reason a fight took so long, causing the healer's mana to run out and eventually fail to keep the tank up, because I was third place in enmity, albeit by a small margin. I had been using Diversion and Lucid Dreaming on CD; the other DPS had not once used their Diversion, and when the healer again ran out of mana before the fight was over (despite my giving Mana Shift on CD) and the tank was two-shotted yet again (having used no CDs for a thrice-upgraded tankbuster), I was kicked. These, too, are permitted distortions.

Now, a parser, too, can face skewed evidence if, say, a tank especially inconveniences his party members by requiring what would otherwise be excessive healing or forcing excessive and uptime-costing movement, AND if the players are somehow unaware of the costs of these situations (e.g. if they assume that every fight should reach nearly the same throughput, despite variance in mob count, ST-to-AoE ideal transfer for each job, CD durations relative to pull duration, ramp-up times, etc). But it is at least a way to make things more fair than is presently the case.

A reduction of ambiguity, devaluing assumptions and allowing for informed action, does not equate to toxicity. My own, albeit anecdotal, experience would suggest a reduction in tossed blame.

Consider, why should one person bother to point out that one player is underperforming when ever player already has access to that information. They may as well say "we are currently indoors". The observation becomes meaningless. Any discussion useful to the annoyed player therefore proceeds immediately to analysis: How can the player improve? How can we improve things for that player, and our party as a whole? What do we need to change?

I don't understand why skipping this shroud of scarcely protective obscurity so frightens so many players. It seems to rely on a warrant that every player is somehow unable to smell the smoke just because they're blind to the fire, and that granting vision will mean that they will kick every underperforming player on sight, rather than as needed. I cannot say that this is impossible: it is an action of individuals, after all. But, having played in numerous MMOs with broadly-used parsers nearly since their inceptions, it is incredibly unlikely except in the event that a known DPS check will very clearly stop the party's progression if including the underperforming player, or that this player has clearly snubbed even his or her minimal responsibilities towards the party (to the same result as purposely standing in AoEs or spending a large part of each fight afk).

Seeing how the party is actually performing does not demand a purge of all things below an arbitrary value. Rather, it tends to forfeit tossed blame or gradual enmity in allowing more convenient observation and analysis. I've lost count of how many time I've increased a player's DPS by a third or more over the course of between-GCDs typed advice, just as I've lost count of how many players will answer "if the fight will last for more than a single combo, you may want to use Heavy Thrust for its damage bonus" with "*** off". The latter will still be anyone's right, but at least player B won't be threatening a ban just because I'm teaching player A with reflection on each pull: the data's already there, and players need not be afraid to know as if knowing were some type of blinding nudity.

[BigRed5392]

Why does this matter?

Homestly, this idea that Yoshi-P is so against parsers that they will never happen is so outdated. How about the examples that have already been presented in the thread about housing reclamation or the clear seperation of personal and fc housing? The only answer is the obvious one - sometimes he changes his mind. Stop clinging to this, it's pathetic.

he hasn't changed his mind in 5 years, over parser he was asked for them since 1.o

pc housing and fc housing were gonna be different, till players wanted person fc houses. Most likely the pc housing was going to be the apartments we ended up getting in SB.

the house reclaim wasn't going to be a thing, then ff14 got too popular.

[RiyahArp]

I don't understand why skipping this shroud of scarcely protective obscurity so frightens so many players.

People don't want raiding culture to spread to the rest of the game. Raiders treat this game like a job, and the fun they get out of it is like the fun people get out of a job. But the negative aspects of raiding are similar to the negative aspects of a job. If that spreads to casual content, well, people who treat this game as something they do to relax and not something they do to work at in order to gain status won't be happy with the change.

[akaneakki]

Raiders treat this game like a job.

Speak for yourself please. I work 8 hours a day with 3 hours total after work spending at a place eating food and hitting gym. This is 5 times a week then you honestly think we treat it as a second job? Have you seen all the non raiders threating yoshida to unsub because they can't have a digital house? Have you seen all these threats when a glam they want is on chinese/korean client but they gonna say I will stop my sub now...?
Or the people who actually make 100000 pages of a digital butt on a character? I could go on all day but honestly most pro raiders have jobs too and also this is why most wouldn't even or couldnæt even go harder since they couldn't anymore due to work. You come in here and talk like you actually have done content that requires dps but you clearly havent and mostlikely wont in a long time. Stop making up things will ya. Yet to see people threating yoshida stop playing the game because there are no parser. The irony when anti parser talk about toxic acts hah.

[Dualgunner]

that was an outliner group. I did say trolls exist on jp side.

Prove it.

Most my experiences have been plesent. in fact most my coil wins were on jp. I was on tonberry. Never had an issue with jp players, most are more pleasent then ppl like you.

Anecdote.

you got stuff to back up your statement? proof im false cuz all I see is "what ifs" you not giving full details to your hyperbole.

Burden of proof is on you.

I suggest you get a ps4, log into DCUO it has a built in parser. play for 3 mnths and see how it is.

So...what would you do if she experienced a less toxic community than in XIV? Is her anecdote any less valid than yours?

and lastly, i got 30+ mmo under my belt, i got 10 years of mmo under my belt. I was playing them before parsers were a thing, how do you think people did end game?

Sorry but I doubt you. I normally wouldn't, but you've spouted so much senseless stuff that I honestly can't take you at face value anymore.

everything you stated requires 0 parser. More team communication.

Team communication through a third party program. If Yoshi P wanted us to be able to vocally communicate they'd have a first party voip.

You enjoy cherry picking my posts btw. I stated my examples from actual experience. I'm not seeing experience from you just "what if"

You give anecdotes which mean nothing. Sorry but your experience isn't "the truth".

i actually do said content

Again, doubtful.

jusy not at the moment, and i skipped alexander S because it simply wasn't my thing.

Doubtful but I mean whatever at this point.

I'm ps4 and tbh, never wiped my pt.

Never ever? Not once? Not a single time ever?

so please.. grow up and stop being an E.

wtf is an E? A true hollywood story?

never in mmo is 1 person at fault for 8 ppl dying.

Did you ever respond to my examples from V3s btw? Where I showcased exactly how many mechanics in one fight alone lead to party death? Let's add v4s since I finally got in tonight: black hole phase. You stand too close to a tank or healer at the wrong time, you murdered them with your fire and you're eating a black hole. Recovery is possible but not likely as holy is coming next and followed by white hole and oh the combined effort of healing and ressurection is too much. 1 person wiped the party.

How about v2s then? Weighted Wing: RDM gets knocked back, then corps-a-corps back in before the aoe goes off. Literally murders the whole party in one shot.

v1s? The tank screws up clamp, everyone goes flying. Someone screwing around with levinbolt? Multiple people are dying. Shinryu Ex? One person is an idiot and cracks the center panel, everybody dies.

everyone has their fair share in the blame, no matter what "examples" you try to use, you are missing details on how/why that even happen. just pointing out the end result.

So your anecdotes are real experiences, but me pointing out very real things that can happen is "examples" in quotes? Wow Red.

Which is what you guys like doing, making examples but leaving details out.

Dude, I'd say glass houses but yours has been shattered so many times.

such as did anyone communicate a strategy? Did anyone give tanks a heads up on what to mitigate, and roughly around when? (fights are scripted by hp%)

Let me see...
Scenario 1: No. The group wanted to go in blind.
Scenario 2: No. One player decided it would be fun to go in blind and ignored chat.
Scenario 3: Yes. But the player didn't understand and didn't ask for any clarification.
Scenario 4: No. This is a farm and people are expected to know the fight.
Scenario 5: No. This was queued in from Raid Finder: Complete, and people are expected to know the fight.
Scenario 6: No. Players can be assholes and just charge in.
Scenario 7: No. Everybody pretended they knew what was going on hoping for a carry.
Scenario 8: Yes. But the player didn't pay attention thinking they could be carried.

also please point out where i said parser are bad? I never said that. I said user made parser have a margin of error due to errors in coding, not being able to get extract damage algorithms.

You implied it quite well here:

I suggest you get a ps4, log into DCUO it has a built in parser. play for 3 mnths and see how it is.

All i said is you don't need a parser to get better, which is the argument i hate that people toss around. People act like if you don't parse by default you suck.

People act like nothing. Beautiful strawman though. We're advocating for a useful tool. Is the tool required to improve? No. But we don't need a lot of tools we have in game already: case in point, why do we even have health bars? Why not wail endlessly on the boss until it dies, a la the real final fantasy games? We have them because they're useful, but not having them wouldn't make fights impossible.

May want to stop cherry picking my posts and actually read/consider what i actually said.

First: You're welcome. Second: stop condescending, it's unbecoming. The smily faces? They add nothing.

And finally after all that...if you honestly think the JP community is that much better than NA, why are you on the NA side? You've clearly been on Tonberry before, or so you claim, back in the coil days.

[Nezia]

snip

The only way one can realistically never wipe a savage group is by not joining savage groups, or not being human. And I guess you are human so you either are lying in saying that you do hard content or lying in saying that you never caused a wipe.

Also, 30 mmos in 10 years does not add anything to your bag, it only means that you have a very shallow and probably misdirected understanding of a lot of games because you did not play it enough to know the core mechanics and actually form an opinion about it.

[JCharms]

Ironically, those posts have been largely coming from people who neither raid nor use parses. Which... actually defeats the entire argument opposing them, if you think about it.

No way, its been pretty even from both sides.

[RiyahArp]

Speak for yourself please. I work 8 hours a day with 3 hours total after work spending at a place eating food and hitting gym. This is 5 times a week then you honestly think we treat it as a second job?

Treating it like a job isn't necessarily meaning putting in long hours, though if you raid I really doubt raiders are putting in less than 15-20 on the game total per week, and maybe more. It means you view it in the same ways you view work and talk about it like work. Your concern is with performance, compensation, attendance, giving proper notice when leaving, relative status, and people not pulling their weight. I mean, imagine a game of Monopoly where people talk about "Welfare free parking" or people slacking because they don't auction properties if the person landing on them doesn't buy them.

It's a change in mindset, and to be honest not a particularly good one.

[Texa]

Again, doubtful.

He barely even runs ex primals if his mounts on the lodestone are anything to go by.