Built-in Parsers

[Dualgunner]

1 mistake from 1 person doesn't cause a wipe. the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe.

O3S. A player stands on the MT's square during books: mt is now dead and ot needs to tank both apanda and Hali. Healers get mt back up but ot cannot survive critical hit and apanda and dies. Weaknessed mt takes both as best he can but heals going out can't match damage coming in. He dies, healers die, then dps die.

There: 1 person screwing the whole group over. O3S is full of stuff like that btw. One person screws up animal farm? Makes everything harder. Clocks? Can kill lots of people. Vines? If attached to the right person. 1 person can eat every single vuln down book before Spellblade Holy. One person can stack their keep away in the stack marker. Of all the scenarios listed only one is being a deliberate jackass.

"But that's savage" conveniently also the content people are talking about right now.

[SDaemon]

snip

All mistakes recoverable? That isn't true at all. Mistakes can most certainly wipe the party without any means of recovering. You've already been given numerous examples. Also, your statement about if 1 person was at fault the other 7 would do fine without them makes equally less sense. Those other 7 players REQUIRE that 1 person to perform correctly in order to meet mechanical requirements. When those requirements are not met and are done incorrectly, then the other 7 in the group can be made to fail if the mechanics dictate such. Your example of a healer getting upset at someone standing in an AOE and letting them die is NOT the same situation as 1 individual messing up a mechanic that impacts the rest of the group to an unrecoverable situation.

[Nezia]

By this logic, I should never outperform anyone with access to a parser, right?

Now now... It's surprising how you ask something like this when I literally wrote:

Can a bare handed person defeat someone with a gun? Definitely!

And

Can you work around it? Sure you can

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Now now... It's surprising how you ask something like this

And yet you claim disadvantage despite me saying (and you essentially not disagreeing) "anyone who makes the effort can do it."

I mean, we can nitpick, but we're both not likely to get anywhere. I stand by what I said regardless.

[Deithwen]

Snip

I'll try to answer to your questions.
A parser, as it says parses everything from the combat log, and even more. For instance, let's say you're progressing on high level, someone dies at some point, you and your group don't understand how it happened because you were busy dealing with your own mecanichs or else. With that parser you can point the precise moment when it happened and list the damages that killed that person, also see what buffs or debuff he had and clearly understand what happened, allowing you to find out how to prevent that in the future.

For nidex you can see that the damages you took actually healed the tower, for Zurvan you can see the damages dealt by the chain if you're too far. etc. it won't teach you how to deal precisely with every mechanics in the game, but during progression it provides great information on what's happening and what causes a wipe, allowing you to take measures tu counter that and learn from your mistakes.

Although, regarding people only using it as a DPS meter, that's right, some will just use it for that sole purpose.
And honestly, I don't find it that bad. They can use it as a tool to improve. Imagine you just clear Shinryu ex, and happened to be parsing the fight. You barely killed in time, but managed. Now you get into farm groups, and this time the group is competent, but there is a tiny bit less dps than the time where you killed it and end up wiping. The parse will show you that, on average the group lacked x amount of Dps, and you can also see who is underperforming, and try to help those person.

On the other hand, you can work on the damages you deal and improve as a bard to maximize your dps output. This has 3 benefits :
- you get better as a player
- you can compensate other's mistakes
- you can skip phases which means faster clears (great for farming) and less stress overall on the players (expecially the healers) and less room for mistakes

[Sigiria]

Except we aren't.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but do something enough and you'll develop a sense of whether you're doing it right or not. In time, you'll even learn to do it better, provided you aren't simply putting in a token effort.

Yeah, but see that's the point, you've got a "feel" that what you're doing is right, but thanks to the information the parser provide you'd have a definitive idea if it's just a feel or not.
And don't take this the wrong way but there's traces of how you performed and your feel is off, you've got a lot of room for improvement. If you had a parser you would have know that without someone else having to point it out.

Now, I'm the first to say that before worrying about your numbers you should worry about getting the fight right if you are not hitting any dps check wall. But if you're going to argue that a feel is enough to know how you're performing, dps wise, then I really don't believe it is.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Even despite the "feel" the same numbers being parsed are right in front of your face.

No, you can't calculate it like a parser can, and RNG IS a thing, but let's not act like the same information being calculated isn't right there in front of our eyes, or that we can't see that something works better one way than another.

Once again, I'm not saying parsers aren't useful. I am saying if they were THAT necessary, lest you be at such a heavy disadvantage for not having it, we would have an option in place already for the console players. That said, there are console players who've somehow managed to play for 4 years already without one and do perfectly fine.

[Lambdafish]

stuff about the word carry

This gave me a chuckle, and you probably have a lot of pent up frustration towards the caricature of a player that you have assumed many of us to be. Let me explain to you what a carry is: it is a scenario where 7 people win a fight through sheer effort to compensate for a player who might as well have not been there. If this group beat the fight in this manner, then this 8th person won without adequate understanding of the fight.

Now about your accusations towards me, I do not use this word lightly and I do not use it as an abuse or harrassment angle, as you seem to imply that I do. Carrying is a thing that can and does happen in this game, that is a simple matter of fact. How we handle the scenario is where the treatment of players can be discussed, and let me just say: it is OK to remove someone from a group who is not at the standard of your current group. If 7 people are looking for a quick clear and have advertised a quick clear, then someone expecting 3 hours of learning/prog will be booted, that is ok.

Players being assholes is of course not ok, but I should not be expected to waste 3 hours of my time on someone who is unable to perform to anywhere near the same level as the rest of the group (to be clear, it is the groups responsibility to make it clear the expectation prior to the person joining).

I've given you the benefit of the doubt with this post, but other responses of yours suggest that you are either trolling, or you have some sort of vendetta against high level players.

[DaulBan]

Returning to XIV, today we see Susano parties with i330 req, and o1s "fflogs" run for the epeen, so it is evident that making a parser "official" will unleash all the worse from people that today are refraining doing that, because parsers aren't to be mentioned in the game.

Last but not least, all the controversy this very thread shows off, is another reason to backup the "no parser" policy.

I mean, if your theory is that people might change their behaviour if parsing becomes 'legal' so to speak I'd say that the i330 susano farms and the fflogs runs are already just a part of the game right now. I don't know how making a parser legal would change what you literally described as something that happens in game right now. Raw min-DPS to meet or else you get kicked? Maybe? But if that's how someone wants to run their party all the power to them, though a lot of people wouldn't join just because that looks sketchy as hell.

And as always just because a topic is controversial in one place doesn't mean it's as controversial in another place. Unless SE held a referendum we can't actually make a solid statement about the opinions of the community from ~30 people bickering in a thread when there are thousands playing the game. The more realistic reason we'll never get a parser is that Yoshi-P just doesn't care one way or another about it.

[Khemorex]

this is why i don't get the NA/english community. they act vindictive in df/pf groups. There is little to no dialog, lil to no leadership, lil to no assistent.

just in fighting with in groups using juvenile terms like "bads" and "carry" which come off pretty bad. :/

you handles that situation poor, you clearly state the group itself was not doing good, but shame 1 player, by just kicking them. Why not communicate with the player as to why damage was low? (which is not hard to tell w/o a parser) was he laging? at any point you could have did some communication as to why yall were wiping.

The problem with that is that NA/EU community has an invidualistic culture.
We dont have the culture to each other that JP has.
And thats NA/EU community own fault to begin with , and no parser is gona fix that :P

People cant just accept that someone else is in lead and dosnt want an official parser (and that for a good reason, we seen here enough negative posts) they will keep hammering ur head until they get blue. They just cannot accept it.
(Not that im a sheep , but u know what i mean.)