Built-in Parsers

[BigRed5392]

Personal responsibility is a thing. Part of being on a team is owning up to your own mistakes and yes, in this game your mistakes can cause the entire group to fail with no hope of recovering the run.

all mistakes are recoverable, no game content has a no win scenario. so yes everyone needs to own up.

like I stated JP players don;t kick 1 person after 3 wipes they vote abandon if no amount of discussion improves a run. no hate, no rude words. they don't sigle out 1 player, they ask what the group did wrong, and how the group can improve.

if 1 person was really sat fault, then the other 7 can do fine w/o them and clear the run after they died. but that is not the case. Each person makes a mistake, or delibralty does something to everyone else.

like a healer getting upset a person stood in an aoe dying.

[Deithwen]

all mistakes are recoverable, no game content has a no win scenario.

Are we playing the same game ? I can find so many examples where this statement is wrong, but I just feel you don't know what you're talking about.

[BigRed5392]

Are we playing the same game ? I can find so many examples where this statement is wrong, but I just feel you don't know what you're talking about.

no win scenario is when if you don't do something you can't progress. 1 mistake from 1 person doesn't cause a wipe. the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe.

did you not read the whole post? just asking because you pulled 1 line and using it to insult me rather looking at the post as a whole. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about the petty behavior over a difference in opinion.

[Deithwen]

the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe.

There it is again. You don't know what you're talking about.
And I am not insulting you oO

Your statement is not an opinion, it's a fasle fact, I'm just pointing it out. When you say "one person can't cause a wipe", this is not just not true, and I can find many fights in this game where your statement is false. No insults here, just facts.

[BigRed5392]

Of course some people will abuse it and that's why there is are report /black list means.
As it's been suggested in this thread, enabling parsers for premades in high difficulty content such as savage, utimate or maybe extreme primals and limiting it's use to these only would be a solution to limit bad behaviour.

Also, I feel you have a very binary vision about players who use parsers and fflogs, as if they were all the same "bad" people and "elitists".

just a few questions, wouldn't you want to know how you performed in a fight ? Or, during progression, being able to see what caused a wipe, what can be improved, why the dps check wasn't reached ? There are informations only a parser can provide, and regarding FFlogs, it's an extremly powerfull tool that's not limited to an "epeen" scale.

explain how people plated mmo before the parser.... as mmo existed before a parser. It isn't hard to figure stuff out on your own with out a parser.

you can get all that info by communicating with the party, ask if anyone had issues that may have caused them to mess up their rotation. No need for a parser, no need to kick ppl out.

There it is again. You don't know what you're talking about.
And I am not insulting you oO

Your statement is not an opinion, it's a fasle fact, I'm just pointing it out. When you say "one person can't cause a wipe", this is not just not true, and I can find many fights in this game where your statement is false. No insults here, just facts.

assuming i don't know what I'm talking about is an insult though, as i can find and have experienced fights that 1 person isn't the issue.

1) did the group communicate? if no they are part of the issue

2) is the healer healing no matter what? if no then the healer is at fault.

3) is the tank tanking no matter what? if no the tank is at fault.

4) did the leader explain the strategy to be used? if no, they are at fault

i can go on. JP don't seem to have an issue with doing any of these... whats the NA community issue? I rarely see people communicate, I rarely see healers heal regardless, i rarely see tanks tank regardless.

I see people with a vote kick trigger finger. I see people pointing fingers. I see people name and shame.

[RiyahArp]

explain how people plated mmo before the parser.... as mmo existed before a parser. It isn't hard to figure stuff out on your own with out a parser.

Older MMOs generally didn't have as much of an endgame or raid focus as modern ones did. Just getting to the level cap alone was an achievement, and there was much more alternative play such as RPing, open-world PvP, and more freedom for players to create their own identity. WoW wound up being a curse on the genre imo in that it sped up the leveling curv, created cross-server play, and created the idea of modern endgame raiding based on math and stats. They contributed to the munchkinization of the genre, and tipped the balance of the MMO genre to the math nerds.

I think this is why the genre is in decline. You have a brief leveling curve and a rather bare-bones world focus, with the majority of long term play in endless raids. The idea of MMOs as worlds gives way to MMOs as math exercises.

[Estelle9lives]

no win scenario is when if you don't do something you can't progress. 1 mistake from 1 person doesn't cause a wipe. the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe..

While I can confirm what you said is true regarding JP servers and how they tend to handle strategies (macro and such), this statement you insist on making is just false. I mean no offense at all, but it doesn't seem like you do content where these things DO happen. I can mention some examples to you, from this raid tier, where a single person making a mistake can wipe the whole party:

- A DPS fails to do Unstable Gravity in O2S. This causes a nuke to go off that will almost certainly kill both healers. If you don't have a RDM/SMN it's a wipe.
- Anyone failing game table in O3S. This is recoverable now that we overgear it, but at i320 it was basically a surefire wipe (Damage Down + Infirmity + Vulnerability Up for a long ass time packed on a fight with a tight enrage)
- Anyone messing up their positioning during Grand Cross Omega on O4S - specially healers as this is followed by Almagest (hard hitting raid buster).
- A healer failing to do chains in Shinryu Ex can cause both healers dying.
- A tank is supposed to pop invul, but doesn't and dies to Akh Morn in Shinryu Ex. The next blasts will follow the aggro table, nuking the rest of the party and almost surely causing a wipe.

Examples from Creator (when it was relevant):
- Any single person failing a Time Gate on A12S will cause a guaranteeed wipe.
- Anyone misplacing Defamation on A12S will cause a wipe.
- Anyone clipping the last tower during Limit Cut 2 will cause a wipe.

I could go on, but my point is, Ex Trials and SPECIALLY Savage Content is absolutely full of situations where one person making a mistake will lead to a party wipe. You should really try to do all the content in the game before making these statements, like Deithwen said, it makes it look like you don't know what you're talking about.

[SDaemon]

snip

All mistakes recoverable? That isn't true at all. Mistakes can most certainly wipe the party without any means of recovering. You've already been given numerous examples. Also, your statement about if 1 person was at fault the other 7 would do fine without them makes equally less sense. Those other 7 players REQUIRE that 1 person to perform correctly in order to meet mechanical requirements. When those requirements are not met and are done incorrectly, then the other 7 in the group can be made to fail if the mechanics dictate such. Your example of a healer getting upset at someone standing in an AOE and letting them die is NOT the same situation as 1 individual messing up a mechanic that impacts the rest of the group to an unrecoverable situation.

[akaneakki]

snip

First of all. I have to correct A LOT of what you said. You clearly don't know what you talk about and you clearly have to stop talking about something you never experience, which will lead to people not taking you serious anymore. Japanese players have standars too. They go in together KNOWING they can do the fight. Most JP players would never ever go inside a fight with 7 others, knowing they:
1: lack dps, 2: can't do the mechanics.

To correct your other thing. As few people mentioned already about mechanics. How about you stop saying there is groups fault when 1 person screw up is entire groups fault? If 3 dps can chunk out 85-90% dps gameplay, and one is below 50% and it enrage it's that dps fault. So please, stop talk like you know about the fights when we all CLEARLY see you don't.

The problem with that is that NA/EU community has an invidualistic culture.
(and that for a good reason, we seen here enough negative posts)

Comes from a person who think it's fun to wipe 7 other people on purpose for over 1 hour and half. Whos toxic again? Read my signature and you know excactly what I talk about.

[HyoMinPark]

all mistakes are recoverable, no game content has a no win scenario. so yes everyone needs to own up.

This is absolutely false. You’ve clearly never done something like, for example, V4S, where Exdeath’s Thunder III tankbuster kills a tank when they fail to properly mitigate, and then the second hit turns around and hits the party member with the second highest aggro (usually a melee). And that tankbuster is an AOE, so say goodbye to the MT, the unfortunate melee, and anyone else standing near them. So, assuming that the OT, and another melee were there, that’s half the party gone. How is that recoverable? By the way, LB3 is a rarity in V4S unless there are too many deaths, and at that point, you aren’t going to meet enrage, so the healer LB3 would be a complete waste.

Don’t make blanket statements when you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Not all mistakes are recoverable; there are plenty that result in a wipe because one individual screwed up.

like I stated JP players don;t kick 1 person after 3 wipes they vote abandon if no amount of discussion improves a run. no hate, no rude words. they don't sigle out 1 player, they ask what the group did wrong, and how the group can improve.

Still on about the JP community? You seem to have either forgot, or you don’t know, that a JP static were the ones who harassed a FFXIV official on Nico Nico via parser, and one of the reasons Yoshi-P and the developers are so against condoning parsing in the first place. JP players are not the saints you make them out to be, so please stop romanticizing them.

if 1 person was really sat fault, then the other 7 can do fine w/o them and clear the run after they died. but that is not the case. Each person makes a mistake, or delibralty does something to everyone else.

Wrong again. While there are situations where 7 other highly skilled players can carry the deadweight of an 8th, those are few and far between. And nobody should have to carry a person who doesn’t want to fulfill their role in the group anyways. Even if the rest of the party can brute force their way through the duty.

There are some duties where you cannot just use brute force. I would love to see 7 people carry an 8th person through Ultimate, especially considering it still hasn’t been cleared yet.

like a healer getting upset a person stood in an aoe dying.

I don’t know what you’re trying to say here, but a healer does have every right to get mad at a person who dies because they can’t be bothered to move out of the AOEs.

no win scenario is when if you don't do something you can't progress. 1 mistake from 1 person doesn't cause a wipe. the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe.

did you not read the whole post? just asking because you pulled 1 line and using it to insult me rather looking at the post as a whole. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about the petty behavior over a difference in opinion.

One person can very easily cause a wipe in some content, and that would not be the fault of the party. Tank doesn’t mitigate for a tankbuster like Exdeath’s Thunder III, or Alexander Prime’s Punishing Heat and it takes out half the party as a result? How is it the fault of the party for the tank failing to mitigate? An OT doesn’t grab adds in certain fights, and they run off and pummel a healer to death. How is that the entire party’s fault? DPS die due to not being topped off during raidwide damage such as Halicarnassus’ Dimensional Wave. How is that the fault of the DPS? Or the tanks even?

You talked about snowball effects—but the truth is, the snowball has to start somewhere, and it usually starts with a single person. Again, refer back to my examples I have given you, where the wipe was caused by a single person failing to perform their job: tank failing to tank/mitigate busters, healers failing to heal before massive AOE damage, etc.. Those wipes start with a single person making a single, careless mistake. If you want a DPS-at-fault scenario, take Sephirot Ex: how fun do you think it is for a melee to not move off to the side when they have an Earthshaker marker, and take out half of the party with them? Not very fun. How fun is it to have the DPS marked for Mad Hops stack with the OT/healers also marked for their own Mad Hops and take them out? Not very fun.

You aren’t expressing your posts as opinions, but rather stating them as if they are facts. Anyone who disagrees with you is met with “JP community is better!” and condescending remarks accusing them of “attacking you” and being the “toxic elitists” that are what’s “wrong” with the NA/EU community.


I’m still waiting for an answer to my previous question: do you do Savage content? Have you done any of Omega Savage? Have you cleared V3S? What about V4S? Did you do any of Alexander Savage when it was relevant? If not, then why are you talking about things you don’t understand, and making generalizations and trying to pass them off as “facts”? If you haven’t done Savage, then you haven’t done the type of content where one mistake from one person can very easily lead to a wipe.

And this isn’t coming from some “elitist” pedistal. This discussion was originally about implementing parsers in content where they matter, and if you don’t do said content (Ultimate, Savage, Ex primals), then why do you care? And why are you trying to pass your opinions off as facts when you haven’t even done the content in this game where a parser actually matters?



To address the continued proposal that publicly condoned parsers would lead to more widespread harassment: where is the evidence suggesting this? Where is the evidence supporting this? As far as I’m aware, no one can see into the future, so no one can say that harassment via parser is going to increase if they were to be publicly condoned, or if one was to be built into the game; or that it would not be properly dealt with if reported.