Built-in Parsers

[MoroMurasaki]

Not sure why you think we anti-parsers are saying you have to carry slackers. We aren't.

Also, we all understand the FFXIV community isn't a bunch of saints. It's a case where people cannot agree if the benefits of having a parser outweigh the negative impact of having them on the game as a whole.

I feel like this (the carrying comment) is being implied by some people on the anti-parser side of things though. Specifically the idea that if a group fails something it is by default the entire group's fault.

There are certainly many ways that one person can wipe almost any given raid, whether intentional or not, and this mentality that just because I've been grouped up with someone who doesn't know/care/care to learn enough to clear a specific piece of content means I am responsible for their shortcomings is where at least some of this tension is coming from.

Let me be clear, I have said multiple times in this forum and on the healer forums that I play healers primarily because of their ability to carry a poor group/player through most content. I pride myself on being able to salvage things that otherwise would have been a death or wipe. I am not looking for parsers in an effort to kick tons of players from my groups. It would certainly allow myself (or any reasonably experienced player) more insight into what's going on, specifically in a situation where things are going south quickly, to be able to better advise our teammates on how they can help us fix it.

Would the answer sometimes be to kick someone? I'm sure it would, but if that turns a disband into a clear for the rest of us I am okay with it.

I feel like this has gone from a discussion on parsers to one on the general health and kindness of the community, on that front I think we do pretty well for ourselves. Are there some assholes? Sure. Most people want to help though. Keeling parsers out of the game out of fear someone might use them to be rude makes no more sense than removing party chat because someone might be rude there. Yes, sure, they might... but doesn't it do vastly more good than harm?

[akaneakki]

I feel like this (the carrying comment) is being implied by some people on the anti-parser side of things though. Specifically the idea that if a group fails something it is by default the entire group's fault.

Yup this pretty much and also say it's fine to slack because ''it's just a game''. Look at my signature, the guy is asking why someone would wipe 10000 times over again and again when the purpose of a heavy PVE game wants you to CLEAR the stuff. Just because 1 dude finds it funny wiping all over again and again, doesn't mean its fun for everyone else. Do people honestly think it's fine to wipe an entire group over all the time, because 1 guy feel it's fine? It's not. You either play on the same level or nearly the same level or you simple aren't the person with the group.

[BigRed5392]

I feel like this (the carrying comment) is being implied by some people on the anti-parser side of things though. Specifically the idea that if a group fails something it is by default the entire group's fault.

it is that is how teamwork/group games work. It is a domino effect.

If someone makes a mistake, recover from it.

What ppl do is vindictive stuff, "oh you made a mistake im not healing you" so that is 1 less person dealing damage, which makes the mob slower to die causing the tank to take more damage. causing healers to over work. All healer had to do was cure the dead person before they died.

instead of letting hp stay low heal people up. Job is to heal so... heal.

everyone should take responsibility for a fight going south. as the point is to work as a team, not solo in a group.

teamwork in rpg/mmorpg is about covering each others weakness and promoting each other strengths. How come in this same game the JP do this, yet NA don't?

[SDaemon]

snip

Personal responsibility is a thing. Part of being on a team is owning up to your own mistakes and yes, in this game your mistakes can cause the entire group to fail with no hope of recovering the run.

[BigRed5392]

Personal responsibility is a thing. Part of being on a team is owning up to your own mistakes and yes, in this game your mistakes can cause the entire group to fail with no hope of recovering the run.

all mistakes are recoverable, no game content has a no win scenario. so yes everyone needs to own up.

like I stated JP players don;t kick 1 person after 3 wipes they vote abandon if no amount of discussion improves a run. no hate, no rude words. they don't sigle out 1 player, they ask what the group did wrong, and how the group can improve.

if 1 person was really sat fault, then the other 7 can do fine w/o them and clear the run after they died. but that is not the case. Each person makes a mistake, or delibralty does something to everyone else.

like a healer getting upset a person stood in an aoe dying.

[Deithwen]

all mistakes are recoverable, no game content has a no win scenario.

Are we playing the same game ? I can find so many examples where this statement is wrong, but I just feel you don't know what you're talking about.

[BigRed5392]

Are we playing the same game ? I can find so many examples where this statement is wrong, but I just feel you don't know what you're talking about.

no win scenario is when if you don't do something you can't progress. 1 mistake from 1 person doesn't cause a wipe. the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe.

did you not read the whole post? just asking because you pulled 1 line and using it to insult me rather looking at the post as a whole. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about the petty behavior over a difference in opinion.

[Deithwen]

the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe.

There it is again. You don't know what you're talking about.
And I am not insulting you oO

Your statement is not an opinion, it's a fasle fact, I'm just pointing it out. When you say "one person can't cause a wipe", this is not just not true, and I can find many fights in this game where your statement is false. No insults here, just facts.

[Estelle9lives]

no win scenario is when if you don't do something you can't progress. 1 mistake from 1 person doesn't cause a wipe. the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe..

While I can confirm what you said is true regarding JP servers and how they tend to handle strategies (macro and such), this statement you insist on making is just false. I mean no offense at all, but it doesn't seem like you do content where these things DO happen. I can mention some examples to you, from this raid tier, where a single person making a mistake can wipe the whole party:

- A DPS fails to do Unstable Gravity in O2S. This causes a nuke to go off that will almost certainly kill both healers. If you don't have a RDM/SMN it's a wipe.
- Anyone failing game table in O3S. This is recoverable now that we overgear it, but at i320 it was basically a surefire wipe (Damage Down + Infirmity + Vulnerability Up for a long ass time packed on a fight with a tight enrage)
- Anyone messing up their positioning during Grand Cross Omega on O4S - specially healers as this is followed by Almagest (hard hitting raid buster).
- A healer failing to do chains in Shinryu Ex can cause both healers dying.
- A tank is supposed to pop invul, but doesn't and dies to Akh Morn in Shinryu Ex. The next blasts will follow the aggro table, nuking the rest of the party and almost surely causing a wipe.

Examples from Creator (when it was relevant):
- Any single person failing a Time Gate on A12S will cause a guaranteeed wipe.
- Anyone misplacing Defamation on A12S will cause a wipe.
- Anyone clipping the last tower during Limit Cut 2 will cause a wipe.

I could go on, but my point is, Ex Trials and SPECIALLY Savage Content is absolutely full of situations where one person making a mistake will lead to a party wipe. You should really try to do all the content in the game before making these statements, like Deithwen said, it makes it look like you don't know what you're talking about.

[SDaemon]

snip

All mistakes recoverable? That isn't true at all. Mistakes can most certainly wipe the party without any means of recovering. You've already been given numerous examples. Also, your statement about if 1 person was at fault the other 7 would do fine without them makes equally less sense. Those other 7 players REQUIRE that 1 person to perform correctly in order to meet mechanical requirements. When those requirements are not met and are done incorrectly, then the other 7 in the group can be made to fail if the mechanics dictate such. Your example of a healer getting upset at someone standing in an AOE and letting them die is NOT the same situation as 1 individual messing up a mechanic that impacts the rest of the group to an unrecoverable situation.