Built-in Parsers

[MoroMurasaki]

I'm genuinely convinced some of you people have no context for a reasonable discussion. Rather than respond to what is being said all you can do is yell about "duty finder is for everyone" and "damn elitists!" and frankly it just makes you look unintelligent when you quote a post then literally respond to none of it. I get that this is just a forum for a game but wow.

Once you start kicking people you are wasting just as much time. Kicking someone because of a number that he/she can't even see IS elitist, yes.

The long and short of it is; If you are queuing in the duty finder for "hard" content you should expect to wipe a few times. I mean seriously, I've been playing MMO since Everquest. I'm surprised how people in this game are surprised that random people kind of suck. Is this your first MMO? This isn't a new concept.

I mean really, look at other games MOBA, FPS, RTS. It's the same thing. Randos kind of suck. Just deal with it, its never going to change. Or do what people figured out a long time ago and create a static or group or guild or linkshell or company or whatever else you want to call and only play with just those people.

Gonna respond to your points one by one.

If parsers were part of the game (as this thread suggests) no one would get kicked for a number they can't see. If you're grey in a group of purples maybe it's time to read some guides.

I never said I wasn't okay with wiping a few times. My first fully pugged Susano EX run had 4 wipes before the clear, my first Lakshmi had 3 and I've tolerated a lot worse in the past and will continue in the future.

I don't have to segregate myself from the general community because I don't want to carry people all the time that is like half the point of vote kick as a function. As I have said repeatedly I do not personally kick many players at all, I only defend the right of the playerbase to do so if their motion to dismiss someone passes. If you meam to suggest that not wanting to carry someone who doesn't seem to be trying to improve is elitist then sure, yeah, someone mail me my elitist pin.

you can only speak for yourself not "a bunch of others" so ya... maybe want check what you are typing on being high maintenance/high standards.

What even is this? What is the "bunch of others" in quotes? I don't understand what you're referring to. I speak for myself but I will continue to argue in favor of players with higher standards than I do being allowed to hold their groups to those standards, especially anything premade.

I'm not sure if this is a grammar issue or what, I just genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say.

If your group handled the mechanics correctly, yes you would have cleared, so long as each DPS member was doing the amount of DPS required to clear the fight. In your situation, you needed higher than necessary DPS to brute force your way through the fight. I have no issue with this if it is advertised as such, such as all those PF parties of the past that advertised them as "Skipping Soar". If that is what the group is setting out to do more power to them, and players go in knowing they need to push higher than normal numbers.

Yes, our PF stated we were trying to beat more than enrage. Sadly with the toxic mentality of the anti parser crowd even if our FC leader at the time knew what the specific DPS requirements were they couldn't have advertised them clearly without a fear of being reported for parsing. Probably would have saved a few people from getting kicked.

Also in response to the idea that dummies/SSS exists as a parser... How many people could clear OS dummies but have no hope at actual OS? I imagine a giant f*ckton. Dummies are literally garbage outside nailing down a rotation, they teach you virtually nothing about any given fight.

Yay you did it faster! .....how? what did you do that made it faster? That you cleared it faster gives you nothing to work with.

Exactly this.

[RiyahArp]

If parsers were part of the game (as this thread suggests) no one would get kicked for a number they can't see. If you're grey in a group of purples maybe it's time to read some guides.

If parsers were a part of this game then, they shouldn't obscure any of the mechanics at all then. They should teach every step of your rotation in game, without need to third party guides or having players figure things out. That's the ultimate cause of low dps, not the requirement of a parser or not.

[DeaconMoore]

If parsers were a part of this game then, they shouldn't obscure any of the mechanics at all then. They should teach every step of your rotation in game, without need to third party guides or having players figure things out. That's the ultimate cause of low dps, not the requirement of a parser or not.

Well they could just pile it into one button for us too so we don't mess it up too.

[RiyahArp]

Well they could just pile it into one button for us too so we don't mess it up too.

Pointless remark. Rotations are simply the controls you need to play the game now, you shouldn't be asking players on their own to have to research them in third party guides any more than you should be expected to look up on gamefaqs how a game's control scheme works. The fact that they aren't, and that you need both to look up on out-of-game websites the proper sequence of moves to be competent, as well as needing to scrape the combat logs to get accurate feedback of your performance, shouldn't be tolerated in MMOs any more. SE can solve this by simply setting in stone the rotations in game, and providing more accurate feedback in game by things like animations, combo chain remarks, and more about your performance.

They don't because they want players to figure it out, but that day has passed in MMO history.

[SDaemon]

They don't because they want players to figure it out, but that day has passed in MMO history.

And how exactly are you backing up this claim? People enjoy figuring it out. Theory-crafting rotations and stat weight is huge in MMOs

[RiyahArp]

And how exactly are you backing up this claim? People enjoy figuring it out. Theory-crafting rotations and stat weight is huge in MMOs

It's huge for a tiny amount of people relative to the population. When you get to the point where people are complaining about low dps overall to legitimize parsers in game, you've hit the point where theorycrafting has started to add negative value. The old theory of MMO game design was to hide stats for immersion's sake and to give those crafters something sticky to engage them, but there's no point in this game, which has very linear rotations, no variant builds, and a true BiS. It just winds up hindering performance because not many people go into the forum/website culture where you find those resources.

[Lambdafish]

Rotations are simply the controls you need to play the game now, you shouldn't be asking players on their own to have to research them in third party guides any more than you should be expected to look up on gamefaqs how a game's control scheme works.

Yes and no, it may be the case that players are figuring out rotations that are better than the devs designed. MCH, in particular, has several different rotations for squeezing out damage. General gameplay style is something to be taught in game (use both fire and ice please BLM etc.) but specific rotations and guides are born from number crunching, and mass experimentation.

[DeaconMoore]

Pointless remark. Rotations are simply the controls you need to play the game now, you shouldn't be asking players on their own to have to research them in third party guides any more than you should be expected to look up on gamefaqs how a game's control scheme works. The fact that they aren't, and that you need both to look up on out-of-game websites the proper sequence of moves to be competent, as well as needing to scrape the combat logs to get accurate feedback of your performance, shouldn't be tolerated in MMOs any more. SE can solve this by simply setting in stone the rotations in game, and providing more accurate feedback in game by things like animations, combo chain remarks, and more about your performance.

They don't because they want players to figure it out, but that day has passed in MMO history.

But as the goal is to maximize if they are handing us everything why bother with multiple buttons? We could just have one and ensure maximum results every time.

[RiyahArp]

But as the goal is to maximize if they are handing us everything why bother with multiple buttons?

When fighting games first came out, special moves were hidden. There was no real resource on how to perform them, you discovered them at random, and if people found out, they spread knowledge imperfectly. This was still an issue even as those games came out on home consoles. Then, arcade operators sometime put cards on the game showing moves, and magazines came out with movelists. Soon fighting game devs started to just tell the moves in game, and then started introducing combo tutorials that let people practice timing.

So did they all evolve to one button special moves then?

This MMO is a bit closer to a fighting game in that sense, since each character has a very narrow "move list," with no real customization. But it's still stuck in the "don't tell people about things" phase for what the playerbase is considering basic controls and feedback.

[DeaconMoore]

When fighting games first came out, special moves were hidden. There was no real resource on how to perform them, you discovered them at random, and if people found out, they spread knowledge imperfectly. This was still an issue even as those games came out on home consoles. Then, arcade operators sometime put cards on the game showing moves, and magazines came out with movelists. Soon fighting game devs started to just tell the moves in game, and then started introducing combo tutorials that let people practice timing.

So did they all evolve to one button special moves then?

This MMO is a bit closer to a fighting game in that sense, since each character has a very narrow "move list," with no real customization. But it's still stuck in the "don't tell people about things" phase for what the playerbase is considering basic controls and feedback.

I can win fights in fighting games with one button.