Built-in Parsers

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If they can't be bothered to improve then that is a static issue and the player should talk with the static and if they want the player to improve then they should improve or find another static.

At least we agree on that aspect, but I still extend the same overall standard to PF. Like I said, I simply can't get behind the idea even a pug should just accept someone performing well below where they should relative to their ilvl just because they reach the DPS check. Frankly, its this mentality that caused Savage to be made easier and easier. Midas, in my opinion, was a solid tier even if I barely got to experience it personal yet people whined over how hard the mechanics and checks were. And therein lies the problem with accepting "just enough." Putting all that aside, PFs are allowed to make whatever stands they want. If you dislike how the leader handles something, you can leave. Some players will be far more tolerant than others carrying other people.

[SDaemon]

At least we agree on that aspect, but I still extend the same overall standard to PF. Like I said, I simply can't get behind the idea even a pug should just accept someone performing well below where they should relative to their ilvl just because they reach the DPS check. Frankly, its this mentality that caused Savage to be made easier and easier. Midas, in my opinion, was a solid tier even if I barely got to experience it personal yet people whined over how hard the mechanics and checks were. And therein lies the problem with accepting "just enough." Putting all that aside, PFs are allowed to make whatever stands they want. If you dislike how the leader handles something, you can leave. Some players will be far more tolerant than others carrying other people.

And I agree that PF leaders are allowed to make whatever standards they want. But I simply can't get behind this notion that just because someone is performing better than someone else in the group and that person in question is performing their fair share of the DPS requirements burden that they are at fault in any way or should be kicked.

Though I suppose its that we have differing thoughts on what constitutes someone's fair share of the DPS burden.

[Baingoleth]

They won't be putting a parser in the game as has been stated over and over. We're up to 10 pages of people arguing and attacking each other's opinion and no one has convinced anyone to switch to their way of thinking. Just stop and let this thread die.

nowai Adding a personal parser to the built in UI would in no way hurt anyone. It would just allow people to find out what rotations and gear swaps help or hinder their game. I keep hoping SE would see that. If people are able to use ACT to find out the whole party or not is a different ask entirely. So, please SE, add an in-game parser that at least supports looking at personal stats. It could only help players who care to experiment with their gear and rotations get better. I could care less if ACT exists or doesn't. As long as I can parse myself, I'm fine. If I can parse the party too, officially or unofficially, that's a bonus.

What if the parsers were built into the Training Dummies and that's the only place they worked? That a way there's no parsing in dungeons, NO MALICE towards anyone, and you still get the parses to help figure out your best rotation? I dont know if something like that is possible, I'm not tech savvy or anything, but that would be a way to solve it, eh?

As long as tools like ACT can get numbers from the combat logs or the network stream, they'll keep working fine despite adding a parser to the game in any official form.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And I agree that PF leaders are allowed to make whatever standards they want. But I simply can't get behind this notion that just because someone is performing better than someone else in the group and that person in question is performing their fair share of the DPS requirements burden that they are at fault in any way or should be kicked.

Though I suppose its that we have differing thoughts on what constitutes someone's fair share of the DPS burden.

And that's fair. Likewise, I can't get behind the idea of just doing the bare minimum, though I wouldn't necessarily kick someone for low damage if I were pugging. It depends if I just want to clear or push numbers. Everyone has different standards though and I don't think that would change if parses were made public.

Before I say something, let's me say that I don't have anything against a parser itself. I had used it in another games, and it's a great personal tool to quickly identify quirk and improve yourself. When someone I run with post a fflog for me to look at, it's a great piece to analyze your performance. But having said that. I also fully understand why the developer refuses to put one in game, because ... to put it bluntly - it can make people really stupid. .

While I don't disagree with your overall sentiment nor its conclusion, I would argue none of those scenarios are parse exclusive. Per your first instance, that is clearly someone looking to shift the blame away from their own poor performance. Take away ACT and I guarantee they're still blaming the healers. Same goes for the second. That WHM wouldn't change how they play even if ACT were deleted tomorrow because, frankly, they're a narrow-minded twat who refuses to see beyond their own parse. It sucks, truly, it does, but people will behave like this regardless of whether parses are allowed or somehow banned completely. I, personally, don't think it would have much impact on the toxic side, though I do like the idea of a trial period mentioned earlier.

[Raven2014]

While I don't disagree with your overall sentiment nor its conclusion, I would argue none of those scenarios are parse exclusive. ... they're a narrow-minded twat who refuses to see beyond their own parse. It sucks, truly, it does, but people will behave like this regardless of whether parses are allowed or somehow banned completely. .

An official inclusion of something like a parse will make incident like this become more common and worse! I started playing MMO 15 years ago, and parser had existed since then, probably even before that. It has always seen demand, yet not a single MMO that I had played include a parser as an official feature. It's not just a SE's thing, but pretty much every MMO developing teams have reason, very good reason of not officially support it. Again, I don't call for the bane of its existence, but this is a feature that should always remain as an unofficial tool, you need detterent against muppetry.

[Dualgunner]

An official inclusion of something like a parse will make incident like this become more common and worse!

What's your evidence?

It has always seen demand, yet not a single MMO that I had played include a parser as an official feature. It's not just a SE's thing, but pretty much every MMO developing teams have reason, very good reason of not officially support it.

Oh you mean there *is* no evidence. Gotcha. It's just a feeling in your gut.

you need detterent against muppetry.

No, we really don't. Even if we did, not having official support doesn't work as a deterrent any more than Ubisoft's DRM prevented piracy.

[BigRed5392]

An official inclusion of something like a parse will make incident like this become more common and worse! I started playing MMO 15 years ago, and parser had existed since then, probably even before that. It has always seen demand, yet not a single MMO that I had played include a parser as an official feature. It's not just a SE's thing, but pretty much every MMO developing teams have reason, very good reason of not officially support it. Again, I don't call for the bane of its existence, but this is a feature that should always remain as an unofficial tool, you need detterent against muppetry.

dcuo had a built in parser since ps3 days.

WoW supports addin publicly parser included.

[Shurrikhan]

An official inclusion of something like a parse will make incident like this become more common and worse! I started playing MMO 15 years ago, and parser had existed since then, probably even before that. It has always seen demand, yet not a single MMO that I had played include a parser as an official feature. It's not just a SE's thing, but pretty much every MMO developing teams have reason, very good reason of not officially support it. Again, I don't call for the bane of its existence, but this is a feature that should always remain as an unofficial tool, you need deterrent against muppetry.

Most MMOs fully allow parsers. Some even have post-fight leaderboards that amount to the same, except with less player use.

To be quite honest, the main reason detracting games from creating an official parser is usually that players are already more used to the third party addons, and they'd want their own version to be more or less comprehensive and wholly polished if they're going to go through the effort of creating a redundant, albeit now official, parser.

And how would a parser increase, of all things... "muppetry"? Since when has objective evidence, however shallow, increased the frequency of foolish incompetence, or dramaticized acts divorced from reality, taking your pick of common definitions? I would think the number of people who assume, against contrary evidence from their peers, that Full Thrust combo-ing repeatedly at level 70 still produces DPS in meeting of content and social expections, and flaunt their right to play as they like to the denial of their n-1 party members' identical (and thereby majority) right, would decrease.

[akaneakki]

. It's not just a SE's thing, but pretty much every MMO developing teams have reason, very good reason of not officially support it. Again, I don't call for the bane of its existence, but this is a feature that should always remain as an unofficial tool, you need detterent against muppetry.

You never played blade and soul then. Blade and soul have on official because the game has like 0.5 globals which is about 2 to 2.5 faster than ours which is pretty much instant. Dpsing in BnS is almost as heavy as FF14. How come they use a parser officially? I thought you were the expert here, so please explain. And are people massively toxic in there for using a parser? Nope, it's more about people not doing mechanics. It wont help having a parser if you fail mechanics, this comes in 14 too, but it wont help EITHER way if your dps is shitlow and you do all mechanics without hitting the boss.