Built-in Parsers

[Baingoleth]

Very real situation. Recently recruiting for replacement tank in my static. One guy I talked to vehemently expressed his disgust with the attitude of PF groups. Doing my due diligence to check his logs, I literally find he has the worst of the worst. Come to find out he plays on ps4, he had no idea that his damage was so low. I wanted to give him a shot because he seemed very interested in learning how to be better. After working with him one night, we increased his dps by almost 1000. He still needs a bit more improvement, but how would he have ever known how "bad" he was. What PF is gonna take the time to work with him to get better? None. While I can't say for certain, I'd be willing to bet a lot the cancer he ran in to in PF got a hell of lot worse when they saw his numbers lol

For reasons like this I'd support a personal in-game parser. It doesn't have show other people's dps, only your own. There's really no other way to get better in this game then by comparing damage. Half the "hardcore" raiding community would be shite without 3rd party plugins calling out mechanics for them, without being able to see their damage numbers compared to everyone else, without fflogs breaking down every single aspect of the fight for them. So let PS4 players be able to see their own damage, it's not asking a lot.

I <3 this reply. While I don't think stubborn people who knowingly join parties out of their league should get carried, they are probably the minority of the low DPS players who get slandered. I stated in a previous reply how much better it would be if people would take the time to identify why a party member is under-performing and let them know. Nicely. You don't have to keep these players in your party but at least dismiss them with friendly advice.

whiskeybravo, your post reminds me of a strong player I used to know. He spent a lot of time forming parties with people who were new to the end game with the express purpose of teaching them how to improve. His mentality was that if more players had someone to help get them up to speed, more parties would be raiding successfully and it would be easier to find good groups.

Some of the pro-parser people I have seen in this thread really do sound mean and cut-throat. Does taking a bit of time to thank an underperforming player for trying and typing a few pointers out before kicking them from your hardcore party really cut into your gaming time so much? If you do it right, that player might learn something and you might gain a valuable party member for later runs.

[Taika]

Does taking a bit of time to thank an underperforming player for trying and typing a few pointers out before kicking them from your hardcore party really cut into your gaming time so much? If you do it right, that player might learn something and you might gain a valuable party member for later runs.

I've never been in a "hardcore raid party" and I'm all for offering people advice (and in a friendly manner). However, without an official parser we cannot even tell anyone why they need to be removed from the party. In fact, some people in these threads have even said that if anyone is even hinting about someone maybe having used a parser (by saying for example "seems like you need to study your rotation a bit more before you can clear this fight"), they will get immediately reported and risk getting banned. Similarly, if that underperforming person would be able to use a parser, they would already know they'd be doing less than they should, and could leave the group by themself to get more practice before joining another group, instead of having to be told (or, in current situation, not told anything at all) and removed by others.

[Baingoleth]

I've never been in a "hardcore raid party" and I'm all for offering people advice (and in a friendly manner). However, without an official parser we cannot even tell anyone why they need to be removed from the party. In fact, some people in these threads have even said that if anyone is even hinting about someone maybe having used a parser (by saying for example "seems like you need to study your rotation a bit more before you can clear this fight"), they will get immediately reported and risk getting banned. Similarly, if that underperforming person would be able to use a parser, they would already know they'd be doing less than they should, and could leave the group by themself to get more practice before joining another group, instead of having to be told (or, in current situation, not told anything at all) and removed by others.

All of my previous replies encourage parsers.

I wasn't thinking about you when I posted that. You seem reasonable.

[DeaconMoore]

Similarly, if that underperforming person would be able to use a parser, they would already know they'd be doing less than they should, and could leave the group by themself to get more practice before joining another group

Heh. How exactly would they do that though? You only want the parser for end game groups.

I'm talking about PF group where the requirements are clearly set by the content (enrage or other DPS check) and / or party leader ("must bring good enough DPS to beat enrage") for content where those things matter (Extremes, Savage, Ultimate). I've clearly specified this in my previous posts too, that this should be the content where the official parser is even added (as an optional feature for premade groups).


We're not talking about solo content, but group content, where each individual's performance has a direct and major influence on the whole team's performance, to the point of the team being unable to clear content because of one individual member. Because of this, everyone in the team should know each other's numbers. And once again, only in the content where this is the case: Extremes, Savage, and Ultimate. And as an optional feature for premade groups.

Again, I think I'm probably argued against by people whom this suggestion wouldn't even concern in any way, since they're not even doing this content in the first place. So why not let those people who do the content and need this and want this to have the option of using it?

You and others also keep pointing out the usefulness of the parser for learning so...? Those people are kinda just SoL huh?

Isolating its use is a no go.

[Taika]

Heh. How exactly would they do that though? You only want the parser for end game groups.

You and others also keep pointing out the usefulness of the parser for learning so...?

I don't understand what do you think I'm saying? I am talking about endgame groups. And people joining them without being able to clear the content they're joining (in cases when the group is aiming for clear, not practice). I'm fairly certain it's extremely rare to see a person performing so miserably they're unable to clear a leveling dungeon or an expert dungeon or another story fight (DPS wise anyway, of course they can fail all mechanics, but in that case it's pretty obvious for everyone involved). Parsers are not needed for story content (or anything else than Savage, Ultimate or extremes).

Of course in Savage and Extreme learning parties, where the group has no intention of clearing in the first place, even lower-than-acceptable DPS should not be a reason to remove a person from a group, in my opinion (as long as one person is not holding the group back from actually winning). And in learning this content (and Ultimate), specifically optimising one's DPS in said content, parser is an extremely useful tool.

Edit: I'll try to make my stance more clear: if a person joins a clear party for extremes / Savage / Ultimate, I will expect them to be able to do good enough DPS so that the party can actually clear the fight (while also handling the mechanics well enough, of course). If a person is continuously failing to do that and is holding the team back (and not because of other party members), I think it's perfectly alright to tell them their performance isn't up to the required level just yet and they should get some practice. In a situation like this, when whole group is handing the mechanics correctly, there aren't deaths, and the only thing that's killing the group is enrage, a group parser is really handly, because it shows who's (continuously!) unable to carry their own weight. But if it's a learning party, and the phase the group is learning has no enrage to wipe to, I couldn't care less about anyone's DPS (since they simply can't hold the group back). In this case though, seeing your own numbers - and being able to compare them to the rest of your group - is really useful, since while you're learning the fight itself, you can also learn to optimise your DPS performance in it, thus being able to carry your weight when it's time for you to join the clear parties.

Just last week I experienced example number one, where I was joining a couple of OS4 clear parties with a DD (who I didn't know at all) who was continuously pulling over 1K less DPS than anyone else. Those groups would have been unable to clear the fight with that person even if everyone had handled all mechanics 100% perfectly (because it was everyone else's first clear too and people were struggling with handling their own part, unable to carry others). Too bad they seemed to have no clue and no one was able to tell them they need to check their rotation for the fight in addition to knowing the mechanics. I would have much rather told that person nicely that they're doing really well with the mechanics but need to optimise their DPS better before joining another clear party than just watch them being silently kicked from the two groups I was with them. That might have actually helped them, I doubt the silent kicks did...