Built-in Parsers

[Lazaruz]

Who cares?
People complain about literally anything. We've had people complain about Ultimate's entire existence, all the way up to garbage like complaining about not being able to play as children. This isn't even an argument.

It is, because that would be the continuation of the argument for why official parsing tools are "necessary". Why we cant have them outside of Extremes/Savages/Ultimate. And from what I can gather, there's quite a few people who honestly seem like they wont be pleased untill we do have something like official parsers implemented as wide as possible (for reasons I best keep to myself as I wont waste my breath on people that are just gonna read what they want anyway outof my post)

Edit: Also, you mention disrespect, but the person you replied to showed no disrespect at all to you. You act as if anti-parsers stand against toxicity but your posts seem hostile regardless of whoever you reply to, and it's usually based on the fact they disagree with you. It's hard to empathize with "anti-parsing" when people like you get hostile.

And it's hard to empathize with people who time and time again fail to adress the concerns you have for a thing like parsers getting implemented officially, and instead treat you like you're making things up or just wants them to be "forced to carry trash players".

Also, if you're gonna ad hominem, atleast try to do it in regards to something I didnt already adress.
Or did you assume I only talked about the person I quoted?

But for the record, I treat people with respect, when I feel like they deserve it.
And a fast way for me to think you dont, is to insist in bringing up a topic that has been discussed to death and beyond, completely fail in adressing the counter arguments being made, or even entertaining that they could be true in the first place.

As for my attitude, I litterally couldnt care less about what people think of me. Because if all it takes for you to "pick a side" is that one "seemed a little hostile", you already made up your mind before even comming in. You were just looking for a excuse to hide behind instead of listening to what's actually being said.

[Lazaruz]

With that said. I'll be taking my leave of this thread, as my words are most deffinetely falling on deaf ears that wont be pleased untill they have their way, regardless of whatever negative effects it could have on the playerbase. But if SE ever does cave to the complaints of people who as far as I'm concerned should consider themselves lucky even ACT was granted a grey area when it comes to being within or against ToS, expect me to be there and say I told you so when the community takes a turn for the worst.

[Oscura]

It is, because that would be the continuation of the argument for why official parsing tools are "necessary". Why we cant have them outside of Extremes/Savages/Ultimate. And from what I can gather, there's quite a few people who honestly seem like they wont be pleased untill we do have something like official parsers implemented as wide as possible (for reasons I best keep to myself as I wont waste my breath on people that are just gonna read what they want anyway outof my post)

Not everyone will be pleased. Some people won't be pleased without official parsing support, some people won't be pleased if there is. There will always be bickering about something. My point was that you can't simply just not do something because people will complain. Should Ultimate not have been made because then casual or midcore players would complain? Should story mode have been made the only content available for raiding so that casual players didn't feel excluded from savage? Should there be no story mode accessible content for raids because raiders might complain they don't feel special? Should 24-man raids not have upgrade items to exchange for that only are obtainable for savage otherwise, because raiders will feel slighted by that too? The list goes on.

And it's hard to empathize with people who time and time again fail to adress the concerns you have for a thing like parsers getting implemented officially, and instead treat you like you're making things up or just wants them to be "forced to carry trash players".

Also, if you're gonna ad hominem, atleast try to do it in regards to something I didnt already adress.
Or did you assume I only talked about the person I quoted?

But for the record, I treat people with respect, when I feel like they deserve it.
And a fast way for me to think you dont, is to insist in bringing up a topic that has been discussed to death and beyond, completely fail in adressing the counter arguments being made, or even entertaining that they could be true in the first place.

I didn't "assume" you were talking about the person you quoted. You explained why you were being aggressive after being aggressive to them, and your reasoning was because of disrespect and the topic constantly being brought up. You correlated the two with your actions, not me. Also, people have addressed the concerns of anti-parsers in this thread without hostility or spite, maybe not in ways you liked, but they have. Just because it doesn't satisfy you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

People have also constantly addressed and "entertained," the counter-arguments, but yet again it's less that it isn't happening and more just not happening to your standards. You don't even have to read very far back into this post to find someone who is pro-parse advocating the use of parsers only within static/ex etc, only for someone who is anti-parse agreeing that if it was moderated and only available for such content and not in dungeons, that they would be fine with it.

As for my attitude, I litterally couldnt care less about what people think of me. Because if all it takes for you to "pick a side" is that one "seemed a little hostile", you already made up your mind before even comming in. You were just looking for a excuse to hide behind instead of listening to what's actually being said.

I haven't picked a side. As I've said time and time again, I don't care whether or not parsers are officially supported. I have never changed my stance on this. I never made up my mind on anything. This is the second time you've tried to call me biased just because I didn't blindly agree with your posts. I don't need an excuse to hide behind anything. I can tell you to your face, right now, that I can't stand you. You are incredibly hostile, incredibly condescending, and you hurt the anti-parsing crowd for their viewpoint more than you help them. I was simply offering you the advice that should chill out. Simultaneously, just because I don't like you, doesn't mean that I suddenly dislike all anti-parsers. Please do not be so self-centered.

[CookieMonsta]

And you really dont think that the moment it's included, even as a optional tool where it, in your opinion, is "needed" we're gonna start seeing threads wishing it's implemented on a wider scale because someone who, just as a example, wants to improve so they can do Extremes, Savage or Ultimate?



Congrats. PF just beame unuseable for anyone not comfortable with a parser, if we follow that line of thinking

Then it's OK for a scrub to sneak in to a PF and no one can call them out on bad DPS because no parser?

The argument goes both ways lmao.

[Dualgunner]

And I respect your opinion too! /big lalafell hug

Now, I've been thinking... I know, I know. That's dangerous.

But I wonder if Square Enix would be willing to introduce an in game parser, similar in design to what the OP suggested, for a three month trial period?

That way the devs can discern its impact on the game, both positively and negatively.
Afterwards, SE can either implement the parser permanently or disable it depending on what they discover.

Such a move on the part of Square Enix would certainly lay this frequent argument to rest.

I think that would be a great idea as well.

[Awha]

Will be honest did not bother to read the whole thread, but I highly doubt SE will ever add an ingame parser, now if you toss it up on the mogstation and charge for it you might catch their eye. All jokes aside why does SE even need to add one? Just use ACT, and if you are on console while it sucks ask a friend or raid mate to track your numbers. Since we all know SE is stubborn and once they formulated a reason not to do something they rarely ever change their mind, especially when it comes to the so called integrity of the game.

I do not think an ingame parser would effect anything, but hell what do I know I still ask for them to bring pvp chat back, but clearly SE knows best.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No offense, but you COMPLETELY missed my entire point.

Unless you explicitly lock it to Extremes/Savage/Ultimate there's nothing stopping people from turning on parsers for anything else (and history will show that yes, they will. WoW has people parsing in leveling dungeons after all)

And if you limit it to just Extremes/Savage/Ultimate you open up for people to complain about not getting parser acess so they can train and become good enough for Extremes/Savage/Ultimate.

Actually, you just went on a tangent. Not so much as a page back did the discussion deviate towards restricting a supported parse feature to harder content. If people insist it needs to be implemented universally. So what? You aren't training in a dungeon where you'll spam nothing but AoEs the vast majority of any pull. I wager plenty of pro-parse players will accept that compromise.

But why am I even bothering. This is has been discussed time and time and time again, but those in favour of having parser software implemented officially both cannot catch the hint that SE has said no, and it's a no they've shown no sign of revoking since unlike those begging for official parsing tools, SE realises the negative effect it's given to have on the community.

You know what else the developers have said no to? Improving the housing system, adding a glamour log, removing Grand Company restrictions from PvP and allowing Paladin to block magic. All four topics were continuously mentioned because people are passionate-- with the latter two eventually being changed. The devs aren't infallible. Another reason parses are brought up is due to the constant disingenuous assertions about them. Even the devs are guilty of assuming the absolute worst when most people want parses to hold players accountable and to self-improve. Harassment will always be harassment. Those who abuse parses should be punished. I find it ridiculous you can have a GM pay you a visit for saying "fuck" in say chat but they, somehow, couldn't handle abuse of a supported parse system.

Honestly, if you're so desperate to minmax your gameplay, I question why you're even sticking with a game that clearly wasnt designed around it being a necessity (not counting content like Ultimate)

Because I like this game? Parses aren't inherently necessary in any MMO. They are simply a useful tool that help people improve when used correctly. Funny enough, I see far more examples of "casual" players shifting the blame around yet you look at ACT and guess who's underperforming by a wide margin. Now before you go assuming I mean to encourage parsing across all content, I use that example to dismiss the false belief only raiders or "elitists" harass players about numbers. In this case, said people aren't even using a parse to harass, otherwise they wouldn't speak up.

(And yes, if I'm coming across as agressive, I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of seeing this topic come up, and it's increasingly annoying the sheer ammount of disrespect is being shown towards the people who dont immediately agree about the need for official parsing tools)

PS. please do explain to me why I should have to be comfortable with something that doesnt have official company support, but was forced on FF14 by a tiny and INCREDIBLY vocal minority of players. Or did you forget that ACT wasnt developed by SE?

Then stop patronizing me on how parses can't be implemented without destroying the community. If you "literally couldn't care less about what people think," why are you getting hostile and citing respect towards an entirely pragmatic response? Numerous people have entertained the opposing side, myself included. We simply disagree, especially when you bring in arguments like "comfort." Bluntly stated, no one cares unless you're raiding with friends. That doesn't mean the group can't be jovial and friendly, but at the end of the day, people want to clear content. I have nothing to really base a retort around that response because not only is it subjective, it's emotional. Generally speaking, people who dislike their numbers visualized are underperforming otherwise why would they care?

I am also sick of seeing players who underperform than proceed to blame the healer, tank or the party disbands after two pulls because no one can risk saying anything regarding ACT without potentially facing a temp ban. So this topic will never die, just like the listed ones above haven't. You don't have to like it, but it isn't "disrespectful" anymore than incessantly bringing up glamour logs or housing. Neither are necessary features but players believe they'll improve the game. Yes, more people want those than parses, but you can't definitely claim an "INCREDIBLY vocal minority" when not even raiders mention they could be helpful. Regardless, if they were only supported in harder content, then opinions on the subject should only be taken from players who actively partake in said content.

Once again, you don't have to like parses, however they aren't going away. Like I said before, instead of having accountability, we have passive aggressiveness where people just silently kick, disband and re-invite who they like or call you out on Discord where XIV's ToS doesn't apply.

[Kyuuen]

Speaking in terms of other MMO's there's not many; if any, that actually have a built in parser, not even WoW. You can argue till you're blue in the face that it's unfair to console players, but consoles have never been known to have mods for m/any game. An in-game parser; in my honest opinion, is not needed. Plenty of people; day in and day out, clear content without needing a built-in in-game parser.

[jameseoakes]

Then it's OK for a scrub to sneak in to a PF and no one can call them out on bad DPS because no parser?

The argument goes both ways lmao.

I don't think SE wants people calling people out for bad DPS, as it's likely to not be done in a polite way and just become abusive which they'd have to do something about. This seems to be one of there main reasons for not wanting to trust the community with this tool.

[Dualgunner]

I don't think SE wants people calling people out for bad DPS, as it's likely to not be done in a polite way and just become abusive which they'd have to do something about. This seems to be one of there main reasons for not wanting to trust the community with this tool.

SE should then take out HP bars so nobody can yell at healers. Then auto-magnetize everything to the tank so they can't possibly lose aggro. If we aren't allowed to judge one role's performance, why should we be allowed to judge any role's performance?