Built-in Parsers

[Claviusnex]

How does that have anything to do with parsers though? Seems like a question of really unbalanced gear design.

I think the point was without parsers the players wouldn't have been aware they could be lazy and still perform well the rankings so wouldn't have changed their play style.

Having played WoW I think parsers caused just as much trouble as they helped. In static raid groups or as an individual they helped but the ability to display the results in chat frequently ended up more as griefing than help in PUGs. I also saw people I knew to be good players kicked just because they had a bad fight for whatever reason. I'd have no problem with a built in parser if it was only for the individual and the only way to see an aggregate for the player base would be on external websites that do rankings voluntarily.

[NintenPyjak64]

How does that have anything to do with parsers though? Seems like a question of really unbalanced gear design.

Nothing to do with parsers, they said they weren't clear on it so I told them why that was as a WoW player (off and on) myself. And yep, WoW is infamous for unbalanced gear design. Gearsets and trinkets can easily shift the balance of a spec from one end of the spectrum to another without any direct buffs/nerfs to those specs

[TaranTatsuuchi]

I'm going to reiterate my stance on this subject again...



I was originally neutral on the debate of parsers in FFXIV.
The more I read the discussions, and the more I read from the 'anti-parser' crowd, my stance shifted, they had convinced me.

I am in favor of FFXIV having parsers.



A parser is just a tool, it is neither good, nor bad.
It just provides information.

It is up to the individual to use them properly.
Regardless of parsers being sanctioned or not, Harassment is still against the Terms of Service.



From what I've read about the Final Fantasy log site, parsers can be extremely valuable tools for improvement.
Being able to go back through a fight and see when abilities were used, how much was overhealed, and all these other statistics just shows to me how powerful a tool they can be for those who want to improve.

It is a shame that these tools are 'not available'.

[KisaiTenshi]

On a different note, please change the combat messages in chat. "X is dealt Y damage" is useless...Change it to "X's Broil dealt Y damage to Z." What is the point of even HAVING a combat log that doesn't log the darned combat?! I mean, due to PING and/or the way the system works, I often have messages out of whack. It shows that I used an attack (instant!) then it shows to me damage made by someone else, then it shows me damage done by my instant attack...It's ridiculous...

I'd rather they delete the combat log or make it less parseable, so it only logs damage you make, and only logs crit damage and healing from anyone else. As it is, the combat log is useless because it blows by too fast to actually read it in a party of 8.

If you would rather people get really mean about it, this data is always going to be sent over the wire, so instead of sending numbers send %'s. That way nobody knows the exact damage they are doing except relative to other players attacking the same target as a floating point value that has no intrisic meaning outside combat with that monster/boss.

[Dualgunner]

I'd rather they delete the combat log or make it less parseable, so it only logs damage you make, and only logs crit damage and healing from anyone else. As it is, the combat log is useless because it blows by too fast to actually read it in a party of 8.

If you would rather people get really mean about it, this data is always going to be sent over the wire, so instead of sending numbers send %'s. That way nobody knows the exact damage they are doing except relative to other players attacking the same target as a floating point value that has no intrisic meaning outside combat with that monster/boss.

Character Config -> Log Window Settings -> Scroll down to "Battle" -> Tab to "Battle" -> Uncheck everything that isn't under the "You" tab

Nothing to do with parsers, they said they weren't clear on it so I told them why that was as a WoW player (off and on) myself. And yep, WoW is infamous for unbalanced gear design. Gearsets and trinkets can easily shift the balance of a spec from one end of the spectrum to another without any direct buffs/nerfs to those specs

Thank you very much for the clarification there ^u^

She was answering an off-topic question by Dualgunner.

Well, to be fair it was closer to clarifying a point I made.

Unfortunately, I have nothing but anecdotal evidence. You know, things former WoW players have told me. To make things a bit clearer, most people I've talked to are not hardcore raiders.

That's fair enough: I'm in much the same boat, save most of my friends coming over from WoW are raiders so it would make sense.

Raiders have different reasons for leaving than casuals. Casual players have told me they left WoW because of the bad community. They have blamed both the cross-server party finder and the misuse of Recount for ruining the community.

Fair enough, but I think that every community can be declared "horrible" and "toxic" if you asked the right people. IE, "toxic raiders" from the casual and "filthy casuals" from the elitist.

Raiders tell me they left because of bad class balance, mandatory gear, and a loot system which makes it pure luck to get the needed gear.

This was the point I made earlier, which I would argue is on-topic because it was me providing a possible explanation aside from parsers as to why people would leave WoW.

The only thing relevant to this discussion is the belief parsers turn good gaming communities into bad gaming communities.

Actually it's relevant in this discussion as a counterpoint to that belief. If people are leaving due to bad gear design and not parser overlays, then it follows that their problem was not that parsers had affected the community in any way.

Since I am not an employee of Blizzard, I do not have access to the data needed to support this claim.

Fair enough once more. I do not have any data needed to detract from it, however the positive claim does still rest on your end.

All I have is my eight years of experience with the game, and based upon that experience, I have concluded parsers, and their frequent misuse, hurt the game more than they improve it.

That's an impressive streak but as I'm sure you know, can't really pass as evidence that parsers are a net negative to a game.

I do, however, respect your opinion and how you came to possess it. I merely disagree with it.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I do, however, respect your opinion and how you came to possess it. I merely disagree with it.

And I respect your opinion too! /big lalafell hug

Now, I've been thinking... I know, I know. That's dangerous.

But I wonder if Square Enix would be willing to introduce an in game parser, similar in design to what the OP suggested, for a three month trial period?

That way the devs can discern its impact on the game, both positively and negatively.
Afterwards, SE can either implement the parser permanently or disable it depending on what they discover.

Such a move on the part of Square Enix would certainly lay this frequent argument to rest.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And you really dont think that the moment it's included, even as a optional tool where it, in your opinion, is "needed" we're gonna start seeing threads wishing it's implemented on a wider scale because someone who, just as a example, wants to improve so they can do Extremes, Savage or Ultimate?

Congrats. PF just beame unuseable for anyone not comfortable with a parser, if we follow that line of thinking

No offense, but if you're uncomfortable with parses in Savage, you likely have no business being in it. I know that might sound a bit callous, however this is content intended to push players. One or two people underperforming can be the difference between wiping to enrage all night or getting your clear. Learning parties aren't likely to turn this feature on, so people will have options. It keep places accountability on everyone in content that matters.

[Lazaruz]

No offense, but if you're uncomfortable with parses in Savage, you likely have no business being in it. I know that might sound a bit callous, however this is content intended to push players. One or two people underperforming can be the difference between wiping to enrage all night or getting your clear. Learning parties aren't likely to turn this feature on, so people will have options. It keep places accountability on everyone in content that matters.

No offense, but you COMPLETELY missed my entire point.

Unless you explicitly lock it to Extremes/Savage/Ultimate there's nothing stopping people from turning on parsers for anything else (and history will show that yes, they will. WoW has people parsing in leveling dungeons after all)

And if you limit it to just Extremes/Savage/Ultimate you open up for people to complain about not getting parser acess so they can train and become good enough for Extremes/Savage/Ultimate.

But why am I even bothering. This is has been discussed time and time and time again, but those in favour of having parser software implemented officially both cannot catch the hint that SE has said no, and it's a no they've shown no sign of revoking since unlike those begging for official parsing tools, SE realises the negative effect it's given to have on the community.

Honestly, if you're so desperate to minmax your gameplay, I question why you're even sticking with a game that clearly wasnt designed around it being a necessity (not counting content like Ultimate)

(And yes, if I'm coming across as agressive, I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of seeing this topic come up, and it's increasingly annoying the sheer ammount of disrespect is being shown towards the people who dont immediately agree about the need for official parsing tools)

PS. please do explain to me why I should have to be comfortable with something that doesnt have official company support, but was forced on FF14 by a tiny and INCREDIBLY vocal minority of players. Or did you forget that ACT wasnt developed by SE?

[Miste]

But I wonder if Square Enix would be willing to introduce an in game parser, similar in design to what the OP suggested, for a three month trial period?

That way the devs can discern its impact on the game, both positively and negatively.
Afterwards, SE can either implement the parser permanently or disable it depending on what they discover.

Such a move on the part of Square Enix would certainly lay this frequent argument to rest.

This is a very good idea and I've also mentioned it before in past threads like this.

Simple fact is none of us knows if an official parser would make the game's community better, worse, or simply the exact same as it is now. The only way to see what will happen is for SE to try it and analyze the difference.

[Oscura]

you open up for people to complain about not getting parser acess so they can train and become good enough for Extremes/Savage/Ultimate.

Who cares?
People complain about literally anything. We've had people complain about Ultimate's entire existence, all the way up to garbage like complaining about not being able to play as children. This isn't even an argument.

Edit: Also, you mention disrespect, but the person you replied to showed no disrespect at all to you. You act as if anti-parsers stand against toxicity but your posts seem hostile regardless of whoever you reply to, and it's usually based on the fact they disagree with you. It's hard to empathize with "anti-parsing" when people like you get hostile.