Built-in Parsers

[Dualgunner]

Not true. Can't you see why parsers would turn a large number of people off? I can't speak for everyone; but, a lot of us FFXIV players came over from WoW, a game which embraces the use of parsers.

It is common to have people post their DPS numbers into party/raid chat after every pull. It is not uncommon to be called a scrub or worse because you can't match the dps of someone twenty ilevels above you.

So, it's not parsers will hurt someone's feelings. It's that they will irrevocably change the game's community and atmosphere for the worse.

I think I'm missing something from your post.

WoW is a game that embraces the use of parsers. So wouldn't a lot of players coming from WoW be okay with use of parsers? Wouldn't they have naturally brought such a community vibe with them?

If you're claiming they came here to get away from the parsing nature of WoW...got any evidence for that? I only have anecdotes myself but a lot of my friends from WoW hate this game's policy on parsing, and left WoW for XIV because they hated the way gear was treated (something about an accessory that has an rng loot drop chance, but can account for 10+% of your dps, I'm not too clear on the details having never played WoW myself).

[NintenPyjak64]

If you're claiming they came here to get away from the parsing nature of WoW...got any evidence for that? I only have anecdotes myself but a lot of my friends from WoW hate this game's policy on parsing, and left WoW for XIV because they hated the way gear was treated (something about an accessory that has an rng loot drop chance, but can account for 10+% of your dps, I'm not too clear on the details having never played WoW myself).

WoW has 2 extra accessory slots called Trinkets. What they're complaining about is that some trinkets became so powerful for a specific class that they literally change your rotation to revolve around said trinket

At the end of Warlords of Draenor, I've heard about a caster trinket that made Arcane Mage just sit around and do next to nothing until it procs, and when it does, they went balls deep and still manage to top DPS (I played Hunter during that time, even then I was changing around trinkets on a per fight basis)

[Taika]

WoW has 2 extra accessory slots called Trinkets. What they're complaining about is that some trinkets became so powerful for a specific class that they literally change your rotation to revolve around said trinket

How does that have anything to do with parsers though? Seems like a question of really unbalanced gear design.

I think the point was without parsers the players wouldn't have been aware they could be lazy and still perform well the rankings so wouldn't have changed their play style.

Sure, but in this case I'd read it as the parser helping to reveal a severe lack in gear balance.

[Krotoan]

But people have the right to exclude whomever they want from their group, don't they? And they already do! There already are "high DPS or kick" party finder groups, and people will get kicked if they don't perform to a group's standards - no matter how silly those standards are. All an official parser would change is to make the process transparent: if you get kicked, you will know how you were doing, instead of being left to wonder (if you don't have access to a parser).

What an official parser wouldn't do is allow being a jerk: harassment would still be a reportable offense. So this argument doesn't really make any sense.

True they do, totally.
But what you don't think being a jerk is.. others might get hurt/disheartened by : "your DPS is too low bye" isn't technically harassment, but you can bet your butt there are going to be a kabillion threads about this kind of kick if there ever is an official parse included.

More people don't want it than do. The majority of the playerbase does NOT want people to have tools to tell them exactly how much they are underperforming. This is silly, yes. People are actually trying to be helpful with this , yes. Most people still don't want to hear it.

You all argue this is going to help and we need this tool. Use one, go for it. But there is a price for it since it's not casual friendly: play PC and DO NOT TELL PEOPLE YOU'RE DOING IT UNLESS THEY ARE OK WITH IT.

I understand how useful it will be for you ultimate/savage types. I GET IT. But most of us really don't care or want to hear about it. Making an official one is just going to make insufferable people even worse. Bad enough we have to deal with "YOU GUYS' DPS SUCKS LOL" , with an official one we're going to get "LOL TANK ONLY 200 DPS BELOW NIN!". I doubt that would be actionable by the GM's (god knows they have more important things to pay attention too) so the argument stands: people will use it for worse things than you think and regardless of "rules" will be jerks about it.

Think of all the things that are "against the rules" that continue every day. RMT, spamming, party votekick abuse. Doesn't stop that from happening.

[Zojha]

How does that have anything to do with parsers though?

Nothing and nobody claimed it did either.

Person B claimed that many people left WoW because of Parsing. Person A then tried to refute Person B's statement by stating that the people Person A knows did not leave over parsing, the opposite in fact, they like parsing, and instead left WoW for different reasons - namely item design.
Since Person A admitted to not knowing the details of the item design their friends supposedly complained about, Person C, the one you quoted, kindly elaborated on them to give Person A a better understanding of the underlying complaints of their friends. That has nothing to do with parsing, it is a supporting remark that has no bearing on the topic of the thread.

Similarly, my post does not have anything to do with parsing and merely attempts to fix your poor reading comprehension. I suggest getting back to the topic of the thread at the earliest convenience.

[Kacho_Nacho]

How does that have anything to do with parsers though? Seems like a question of really unbalanced gear design.

She was answering an off-topic question by Dualgunner.

WoW is a game that embraces the use of parsers. So wouldn't a lot of players coming from WoW be okay with use of parsers? Wouldn't they have naturally brought such a community vibe with them?

Unfortunately, I have nothing but anecdotal evidence. You know, things former WoW players have told me. To make things a bit clearer, most people I've talked to are not hardcore raiders.

Raiders have different reasons for leaving than casuals. Casual players have told me they left WoW because of the bad community. They have blamed both the cross-server party finder and the misuse of Recount for ruining the community.

Raiders tell me they left because of bad class balance, mandatory gear, and a loot system which makes it pure luck to get the needed gear.

The only thing relevant to this discussion is the belief parsers turn good gaming communities into bad gaming communities. Since I am not an employee of Blizzard, I do not have access to the data needed to support this claim. All I have is my eight years of experience with the game, and based upon that experience, I have concluded parsers, and their frequent misuse, hurt the game more than they improve it.

[Taika]

I understand how useful it will be for you ultimate/savage types. I GET IT. But most of us really don't care or want to hear about it.

Which is why it's suggested as an optional feature reserved for only content where it's needed: extremes, savage and ultimate.

She was answering an off-topic question by Dualgunner.

Yeah well I don't think Dualgunner's point was to ask about what that gear was, but how WoW players' experiences from parsing would affect their wishes after moving here.

[Krotoan]

Which is why it's suggested as an optional feature reserved for only content where it's needed: extremes, savage and ultimate.

didn't catch that part. I'll support that. Only available in Savage and higher = +1
Gonna argue like hell if that ever happens and people start asking for it in everything though. Deal?

Edit: Upon further introspection I'll add this: It should be a flag in party search as well. If you don't want to join a party with it enabled you should be able to partyfind one without it on. .. unless that was already mentioned.. if so yeah.. that.

[Taika]

didn't catch that part. I'll support that. Only available in Savage and higher = +1
Gonna argue like hell if that ever happens and people start asking for it in everything though. Deal?

I really think it should be a feature available for premade groups only. Something a party leader could enable or disable, and people could join PF groups based on if they're using one or not as they wish. And it could be set off by default in raid finder when solo queueing. I think people should be allowed to use it in other content too if they wish to do so though (again, only as a premade group where people have joined accepting it will be used).

And you really dont think that the moment it's included, even as a optional tool where it, in your opinion, is "needed" we're gonna start seeing threads wishing it's implemented on a wider scale because someone who, just as a example, wants to improve so they can do Extremes, Savage or Ultimate?

Answered this here too. It should be a feature available for premade groups to use in all content they want to use it in.

Congrats. PF just beame unuseable for anyone not comfortable with a parser, if we follow that line of thinking

You mean people who don't wish to use a parser aren't likely to have as many groups available for them? That may be true, but they're also free to start their own (and people who usually want to use parsers or just don't care either way may join those too just as well). Just like now most Savage and Shinryu party finders are weekly farms: people who haven't cleared yet are unable to join those, but they're always free to start their own learning party (and people who have already cleared commonly join those).

I think it's also important to keep in mind that right now, most if not all of those PF groups are likely to be parsed by at least one person..

[Lazaruz]

Which is why it's suggested as an optional feature reserved for only content where it's needed: extremes, savage and ultimate.

And you really dont think that the moment it's included, even as a optional tool where it, in your opinion, is "needed" we're gonna start seeing threads wishing it's implemented on a wider scale because someone who, just as a example, wants to improve so they can do Extremes, Savage or Ultimate?

I really think it should be a feature available for premade groups only. Something a party leader could enable or disable

Congrats. PF just beame unuseable for anyone not comfortable with a parser, if we follow that line of thinking