Built-in Parsers

[Nightroad]

Chasing those high dps numbers can be addictive.
There are a few tanks who almost died or did die, i can not remember, when i was trying to get one more holy / stone(x) in.
But seeing oneself out dpsing the damage dealers in certain situations was priceless.

So yes to an inbuilt paraser.

[Taika]

So you don't want the parser to perfect your output you want it to know which classes to favor for particular fights?

I'm sorry but WHAT? How exactly did you get that out of what I said? I didn't say anything at all that would (should) give that impression! What I said was, a parser must be used during the actual fights so that it will be any use for improving one's performance during that fight - and dummy is not of much use for that.

Also, parsers have been used for the whole time this game has been out and it has never lead to discriminating specific jobs from specific fights (meaning situations where DRGs would not be accepted in OS4, for example, please correct me if I'm wrong). Of course it has shown if a certain job has been in general weaker than others, but SE has been pretty good with balancing. Right now all endgame content is heavily parsed and no jobs are shut out from any content. So where exactly does this speculation of yours come from?

[DeaconMoore]

I'm sorry but WHAT? How exactly did you get that out of what I said? I didn't say anything at all that would (should) give that impression! What I said was, a parser must be used during the actual fights so that it will be any use for improving one's performance during that fight - and dummy is not of much use for that.

because your DPS in a dummy fight is a completely different thing from your DPS in a specific fight with specific mechanics. A person may do perfect dummy DPS rotation and still fail a DPS check on their part in a fight.

If your interest is improving your output you can use a training dummy to train yourself for specific fights. The fights are scripted events. Watch a video of the fight and adjust yourself for the mechanics as they come up. It's really not that hard to do. And you can do it with your static to account for the buffs and not worry about rage quits, drama, or exhaustion from multiple wipes.

The only reason you'd use a parser in the actual fight is to point the finger at someone when it goes wrong.

[Taika]

If your interest is improving your output you can use a training dummy to train yourself for specific fights. The fights are scripted events. Watch a video of the fight and adjust yourself for the mechanics as they come up. It's really not that hard to do.

Really, not that hard? Can you show me some of your logs from Savage or Extremes, your performance based on dummy training? Or show a video where you're using a training dummy to practice your OS4 rotation?

Edit: Now I can't get an image out of my head of myself running around the SSS area "performing OS2 mechanics" while playing the fight in my head (TENTACLE EAST!!!! GO UP!!!! STOP DPS AND TURN AWAY!!!!)

The only reason you'd use a parser in the actual fight is to point the finger at someone when it goes wrong.

I need to address this too. I have been pugging Savage for a while now, every single of those parties has been parsed, and not once have myself or someone else "pointed a finger" at anyone for low numbers, even when the runs have gone terribly wrong. But of course if someone is messing up every single mechanic and constantly dying, thus preventing the group from progressing (in a group where everyone who joined has claimed to know the fight), that has to be pointed out (in a nice manner). And the same way, if someone is constantly doing significantly less DPS than they should be (and not because of deaths or other circumstances that aren't their fault), again preventing the group from progressing (or just forcing everyone else to carry them), that also has to be pointed out. Now just in case, I'm only referring to content where DPS and performance matter, in other words Extremes, Savage and Ultimate. Also, you need to remember all this content is already parsed: it's 99% certain that whenever you enter an instance in one of these, you will be parsed. What an official parser would change would be to bring transparency to this (so that instead of someone claiming your performance is bad without proof, you would be able to see for yourself if it is or isn't), and give PS4 players the access to the tool PC players are already using.

Also, what's with all the people who aren't even doing content where a parser is needed (and what parser is asked for!) complaining about it? This debate does not concern you. If it's implemented as an optional feature for premade parties, mostly used for Extremes, Savage and Ultimate, and you don't do any of those things (and if you would, you'd still get an option to refuse from using it), why are you trying to forbid it from the players who do that content and could use it?

[Dualgunner]

Really, not that hard? Can you show me some of your logs from Savage or Extremes, your performance based on dummy training? Or show a video where you're using a training dummy to practice your OS4 rotation?

Edit: Now I can't get an image out of my head of myself running around the SSS area "performing OS2 mechanics" while playing the fight in my head (TENTACLE EAST!!!! GO UP!!!! STOP DPS AND TURN AWAY!!!!)

Or v3s. Arbitrarily stop your opener for 5 whole seconds and run across the field to simulate Spellblade Holy.

[Krotoan]

The argument for:
It's useful for true min/max tweaking of DPS and raid progression
it helps find the actual weak links/spots in a group so they can be fixed.

Against: People are jerks and WILL use it to exclude/abuse people if they're not measuring up to their standards (even if they are doing adequately).



AAAAND like many MANY laws and regulations out there, this restriction is in place for those precious few who can't play nicely. ^ This is why we can't have nice things people. Cause people are going to be jerkwads about it. Not many, probably not you. But people are going to.

[MoroMurasaki]

The only reason you'd use a parser in the actual fight is to point the finger at someone when it goes wrong.

I just posted in this thread like a page ago why I'd want a parser - to better gague my performance so that I can optimize it, specifically on my DPS classes which are significantly more complicated than healers which are all I've played for a while.

Your statement there is a bold-faced lie.

As to using a training dummy or SSS that isn't the real fight! There is no way you can gain meaningful experience with an encounter without playing that encounter yourself, dummies are great for training muscle memory and testing specific things but that's basically all.

Also what's wrong with figuring out the weak link in a group? If one person isn't pulling their weight then maybe they need help. With a parser you would know, without one you're just gonna keep wiping.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The argument for:
It's useful for true min/max tweaking of DPS and raid progression
it helps find the actual weak links/spots in a group so they can be fixed.

Against: People are jerks and WILL use it to exclude/abuse people if they're not measuring up to their standards (even if they are doing adequately).



AAAAND like many MANY laws and regulations out there, this restriction is in place for those precious few who can't play nicely. ^ This is why we can't have nice things people. Cause people are going to be jerkwads about it. Not many, probably not you. But people are going to.

And yet again, people who are jerks can be reported. They don't need a parse nor will it make any impact. You can set up a PF right now and kick someone without a single word. They may know it's because you were running a parse but since they have no proof, nothing will happen.

[Taika]

The argument for:
It's useful for true min/max tweaking of DPS and raid progression
it helps find the actual weak links/spots in a group so they can be fixed.

Against: People are jerks and WILL use it to exclude/abuse people if they're not measuring up to their standards (even if they are doing adequately).

AAAAND like many MANY laws and regulations out there, this restriction is in place for those precious few who can't play nicely. ^ This is why we can't have nice things people. Cause people are going to be jerkwads about it. Not many, probably not you. But people are going to.

But people have the right to exclude whomever they want from their group, don't they? And they already do! There already are "high DPS or kick" party finder groups, and people will get kicked if they don't perform to a group's standards - no matter how silly those standards are. All an official parser would change is to make the process transparent: if you get kicked, you will know how you were doing, instead of being left to wonder (if you don't have access to a parser).

What an official parser wouldn't do is allow being a jerk: harassment would still be a reportable offense. So this argument doesn't really make any sense.

[Oscura]

The only reason you'd use a parser in the actual fight is to point the finger at someone when it goes wrong.

Exactly. Not having parsers totally prevents anyone from blaming somebody for wipes, failing DPS checks or not doing mechanics properly. The moment we get parsers in our game that's out the window.