Built-in Parsers

[BillyKaplan]

They'll be kicked for "gameplay difference", so it's not going around anything

Which is its own can of worms but that's neither here nor there.

In pre-made parties, people already severely reduce the amount of people they can team up with. So what's the difference?!

You misunderstood me, it is those very pre-mades I'm talking about that will be limited. While I'm aware most hardcore raiders already parse, I can't believe they all parse all the time. And it is that group you will be fragmenting because you'll be forcing one or the other to abide by the other's philosophy. That is to say, a non-parsing capable raider can no longer team up with the parsing raider who wouldn't have said anything because the non-parser is good enough for them. Because it's all or nothing now.

Of course DPS will use queues. And there are already options that fragment queues, like the language.

You compare choosing to use a game utility to the language you were born into. Ok. Wow.

The problem with queue is not the lack of people to play it. It's the absurd amount of DPS compared to tanks and healers.

Which is why anything that will make the queues longer is bad, very bad, teribad, because we really don't need to make things worse.

Also, people still "segregate" the queue, instead they do it after it pops.

Being inside a duty and being outside a duty are completely different situations. If you're already inside, people in your fc or linkshells will be a lot more inclined to join in progress, because if you're 'underperforming', that quitter had to have been there for a while to see that, right? Also you'll know if you have bonus or not and can use that to lure people in as well. I strongly disagree with people comparing people dropping queue before and after it popped because the situations are very different. That's part of what we have the roulettes for, and absolutely why we have the 'join in progress' for. I've seen dead parties where it was only the one first timer left get filled within a minute or two and we cleared the content. So as I like to say before, thank you for making my queue pop, enjoy your penalty, I'm running my content.

[Bobs]

This is exactly why I don't do "end game content," in this game.

If you want/need to be ranked play a MOBA or a FPS.

[Lazaruz]

SO STOP TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE KICKING OVER NUMBERS. Nothing will force you to use the parser (thus letting others use theirs) if you don't want to risk getting kicked.

Not to imply I was ever on your side to begin with, but this is a prime example of where you loose me on your train of thought, as you're blatantly overlooking the ammount of people in PF that would require a parser for endgame content. You're overlooking the fact that your "suggestion" for a built in tool would drasticly and irreparably divide the community into "parser" and "Non-parser", and once a developer goes hands off with allowing people to parse or not, there is a proven trackrecord out there that it will rapidly become a problem as it becomes expected within the playerbase to have it running, especially since there's no way of proving, for instance how many would actually be using it in FF14 if it wasnt because they fear they'll step outof line and get banned (a argument that goes out the window once there's a official parser tool)

But you're correct. No one is being "forced" to enable a parser under your suggestion for a built in tool. They just need to or eventually it will be next to impossible to get a competent group up and running (think DF queues for outdated Alliance raids prior to the roulette in 4.1)

And if you're getting mad over people "not listening to you" imagine how it feels being on the other side when the "pro parsers" time and time again fail to adress the very real concerns surrounding the implementation of official measuring tools, or atleast SE dropping the charade and going full hands off.

I've seen it myself during my time with other MMO's how hostile the community rapidly becomes once it becomes "expected" to parse your numbers, and I know for a fact that I will see it again if Square decides to fully stop caring if people use it in FF14

[kikix12]

And if you're getting mad over people "not listening to you" imagine how it feels being on the other side when the "pro parsers" time and time again fail to adress the very real concerns surrounding the implementation of official measuring tools, or atleast SE dropping the charade and going full hands off.

I'm not getting mad over people not listening to me. I'm perfectly fine with constructive criticism, discussion etc. What I'm not fine is the concept of "I suggest an option to remove X for the player on the client side" only to hear "I'm against, cause I still want to see X" (this is not about parsers, but an example).

Also, I made a suggestion in an attempt to address the very negative aspects of built-in parser. Is it "fool-proof" and "flawless"?! No. I never said otherwise. Quite the opposite. I posted it on the forums in hope of getting constructive responses from different points of view. And I agree with them or give arguments why I disagree with them. I neither said "parsers in game, nuff said" nor "you're wrong cause I think you're wrong". But denying there being a possibility of parsers in-game that would mitigate the negative parts innate, while still not having a unique negative impact exceeding the gain is just naive.

On a different note, removal of the built-in parser if things go west is an option. It is always an option. It is reversible. People would just go back to current parsers full-time after complaining some about the "casuals" and "unskilled players". Something that happens everyday about other topics anyway.


Heck. Training grounds instances that can be soloed or partied in, meant to train, would be one middle-ground. Since they wouldn't even necessarily offer real challenge or rewards, just be more faithful to the dungeon situation than a non-mobile, non-aggressive dummy, there would be no issue with segregation for actual duties or a players excuse for grieving underperformers. But you know, "try with the big things, then get to the details" is how it should be done. In countries where negotiating the price is an upheld tradition, shops specifically show high initial prices, so have that leeway for negotiations. But blank "no" or "people will harass others over numbers" is not leaving any option.

You compare choosing to use a game utility to the language you were born into. Ok. Wow.

Except, people don't even answer to a simple "Hi." or "Hello." regularly. And the language options have nothing to do with the game. They only describe with which language you are fine seeing in the party IF someone will decide to talk. And then there is the translation feature for the basic terms that can be used, even if you don't know the other languages that you queue with. I know few people that have all four of them active while they do not know all four languages. So your argument is moot.

[Enla]

OP, I think you need to take a deep breath.

[DaulBan]

OP, I think you need to take a deep breath.

I mean, I understand if they're frustrated. Threads about parsers tend to get dogpiled by people for/against them and then they start arguing without ever reading the OPs post especially when it attempts to directly offer solutions (or challenges) to things they think about the situation. I imagine it's probably pretty annoying.

[Enla]

I mean, I understand if they're frustrated. Threads about parsers tend to get dogpiled by people for/against them and then they start arguing without ever reading the OPs post especially when it attempts to directly offer solutions (or challenges) to things they think about the situation. I imagine it's probably pretty annoying.

I can agree but at the same time taking a moment to breathe wouldn't go remiss.

[kikix12]

I can agree but at the same time taking a moment to breathe wouldn't go remiss.

I'm naturally asocial, so when 50% of the people (yes I counted, 4 out of 8) don't even bother reading, I'm just more and more convinced there is no point in even trying to interact with people. And it is darned irritating when humans are social species with social needs, me being no exception. No amount of deep breaths will change that.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I'm naturally asocial, so when 50% of the people (yes I counted, 4 out of 8) don't even bother reading, I'm just more and more convinced there is no point in even trying to interact with people. And it is darned irritating when humans are social species with social needs, me being no exception. No amount of deep breaths will change that.

Sorry Kikix12, I did not mean to upset you. The fact is, I did read your entire post. I liked your ideas and think the options are a clever solution to a lot of the problems players have with parsers.

However, I have a deep concern that regardless of your intentions, parsers will affect the game negatively. That's all. I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying I know players and with regards to in game parsers, if SE gives an inch, they will take a mile.

[XiXiQ]

parsing yourself (or not) is fine, other people's figures are not your concern.

There'll never be anything official however, because it would show quite obviously how latency affects players DPS.