Built-in Parsers

[BigRed5392]

How do you know how well you're doing without actual numbers to back it up? There are so many players out there who think they're doing alright but in reality don't have a clue. And if you say read and follow the guides for openers and rotations, you know they're all based on people utilising parsers to find that information, right?

What's so scary and wrong about actually knowing how you're doing and why in the content where certain numbers simply need to be met or the whole group will fail?

Also going to ask you the same question: are you even doing the content people need the parsers for? Seems like this thread is full of people saying "oh no you don't need a parser, you just have to X", while those people have no personal experience of the content where the parsers are used and needed... I'm all for implementing an official parser which is limited for the optional use of premade parties (and the content those do: extremes, savage, ultimate). In this case, having one in game doesn't in any way even concern those players who don't do that content in the first place (like many naysayers in this thread).

I've played dcuo which DOES have an ingame parser, and can tell you it didn't do what you want. Which is make people learn, so you are not wiping to content.

I think Parsers are the worst way to tell if you are good or not, as being good is more then just how high your dps is, i see groups wipe due to healers being too scared to heal worried about over healing.

I see people step on each others toes to do the big D deeps, instead of working as a team. Like a healer who holy spams during blood price, or who doesn't cure till the very last min.

MMO have been out longer then parsers and other third party tools. I don't recall the EQ crowd ever having parser conversations, I don't recall parsers coming up in ff11 till 2008. I only heard of them in WoW, and personaly experienced them in dcuo.

the parser in dcuo, tells you in and outgoing damage, crit rate, healing output. It never made people better, just made people rush content so they can top dps. Most ppl didn't want to do their role. Just dps.

I see that happening here with the need for all tanks/healers to deal big d damage no matter the content. yet dps players are not told to do extra like heal/raise when its part of their kit like rdm. I rarely see people use skills that aid parties, such as enmity reducers since it deals no damage.


And to reply your question, yes i do content which it is "needed", and never once got complaints if my damage is low, and i DF/PF content not in a static. I did coil around its launch, sadly had no time to do savage alex, but i did do the extremes.

to be good at the game, you simply need to be in good gear and know the job/role you are playing. You can train out in the world to see how each skill works with others to fine tune your rotations. You can simply use time to try and kill mobs faster each time.

As i said parser were not always around, how do you think older mmo players managed? ff11 was ps2 only @ launch, how do you think those players "got good".

[Taika]

I see that happening here with the need for all tanks/healers to deal big d damage no matter the content. yet dps players are not told to do extra like heal/raise when its part of their kit like rdm. I rarely see people use skills that aid parties, such as enmity reducers since it deals no damage.

That was a really long way to say "no, I have no experience of any current (or near past) endgame content in this game" (you have no recorded Omega or Alexander Savage kills nor extremes from HW or SB). And this quote really shows it, as in the content where parsers are used and needed in this game, enmity reducing abilities are an absolute must-use for all DDs, RDMs and SMNs are regularly asked to raise (in progression at least), and DDs are also using their damage reduction abilities etc.

How parsers are or aren't used in other games is not relevant to this discussion, as those games work differently (in FFXI for example you didn't really need them, since in most fights - unless it was RDM chainspell stun burn strategy - you could just endlessly die and raise and kill bosses really slowly before they added enrage timers, and by that point parsers were already commonly used...), have different communities and different endgame structures (meaning you join content in a different manner, the requirements are different etc.).

[FallenArisen0990]

Wall of text.

Yep, those were the days. It's why I like segments that break combat to do an ATE.

[kikix12]

yoshida said no 12 time already, and you don't need a parser to be good.

Of course not. You can just use a calculator and a spreadsheet. However, I'd prefer to spend those few hours once in a while actually playing the game than doing the math.

Anyone that is a "top" at their class either used parser, did the calculations the old-fashioned way (the two probably combine to 99% of the best 1 000 players), or have an immensely good luck/instinct that borders on an innate genius. Sure, there are people like that...but most are average. Cause...ya know...that's what "average" means.

those who wanna learn will learn. those who don't, won't.

Of course. But those who wanna learn will have a lot easier time at learning with a parser.

Learning doesn't need a user made program (which is subject to margin of error)(...)

...I'm asking for a developer-made parser...so yeah...Developers aren't exactly users...

also fyi, there is a search function this suggestion was made 40 times since ff14 launched the issue that comes up, would be other players demanding you turn on your numbers or be kicked.

Parsers may have been suggested 40 times. This suggestion is about a method they could be implemented, not parsers per see.

Also, read. It doesn't hurt, it's not difficult either. You cannot be kicked for not turning your numbers with my suggestion, because you can't turn them on. And neither can the person that asks you to turn them on or anyone else in the party. Once it would be set, it's in stone for the entire run. And if someone feels like entering a dungeon while being one of the people locking parsers out only to complain about there being no parsers and voting abandon for no parsers being accessible...well, that person would have way bigger problems than not seeing numbers...

lil research goes a long way.

So does actually reading fully first, instead of just skimming the title and progressing to make your post without caring about anything else written.


As for the people that extremely fear the numbers grieving...I had a peculiar run yesterday as a tank. Using just the combat log that is already in game, I found out that the damage dealers deal with their skills about 30% less damage than I do with the basic Fast Blade, as a paladin with a shield stance on. It took me a while to understand which damage is which (except my own) due to how messed up the combat log is in this game...but that alone would make it suitable for me to vote kick the two DPS if I was into that stuff (I'm not, there's no point, so long as we progress).
This however does not take into consideration a myriad of things (attack speed is one of them). In fact, this is the purest form of "basic numbers". And it is far more unfair.

[Dualgunner]

Got any evidence to back that claim up Big Red? Since its just a little research should be easy to go and cite it really quick.

[Jijifli]

Got any evidence to back that claim up Big Red? Since its just a little research should be easy to go and cite it really quick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WXYg-S05U

Likely referring to 6:04, where Yoshi said they aren't allowed because of things like hacks, so the company has to officially decline.

However, he's telling the players don't sub your mod in people's face. If you aren't telling people you're parsing, nobody is going to know 100% you are parsing. He wants people to enjoy their experience, and if parsing gives the player the full experience, they can, so long as they aren't rude about it.

[Dualgunner]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WXYg-S05U

Likely referring to 6:04, where Yoshi said they aren't allowed because of things like hacks, so the company has to officially decline.

However, he's telling the players don't sub your mod in people's face. If you aren't telling people you're parsing, nobody is going to know 100% you are parsing. He wants people to enjoy their experience, and if parsing gives the player the full experience, they can, so long as they aren't rude about it.

"doesn't make too big of a difference in
6:46terms of like giving users an advantage
6:48or not um he feels that what's most
6:50important is on this the actual skill of
6:53the player themselves and in terms of
6:58like different tools that are being used
7:01or that has come across like um like
7:06hacking tool or like thoughts that would
7:08do menial tasks for you or generate Gil
7:11for you those are definitely not good
7:14and we would have to go in and ban those
7:16people that are abusing the system um"

Based on the transcript of the video linked, he is talking about botting and actual hacks as a separate entity entirely to a program like ACT. If this is what Big Red is referring to, then he's off by a mile and "hacks" are absolutely not a reason they won't do an official parser.

Imho as long as we find it acceptable to rank all jobs based purely on damage they do, we as a community do not deserve an official parse. Now i have been pugging all the content since 2.0 and i have never once hit enrage with a 100% clean run.

From what I'm understanding, your argument is:

Parsers lead to comparisons between the jobs
Comparisons between the jobs lead to ranking
Ranking is bad
Therefore parsers are bad?

The flaw here is the ranking happens with or without a parser. We have 3 tanks for 2 spots, 3 healers for 2 spots, and 9 dps for 4 spots. People are gonna rank what the best things to bring will be in the long run even without solid numbers.

And with the parser and the rankings we're able to have an open dialogue with the devs about balance, and showcase what the real numbers are versus what the devs may want / may have predicted.

EDIT: I can get where you're coming from that ranking purely on DPS can be shortsighted; there are things that don't show on the parser like rDPS and that can skew the idea of what a job is actually bringing. But all other things equal as we must assume for Occam's Razor (player skill, mechanics followed, etc) we still inevitably wind up with the question of "Which jobs help us kill this faster?" And whether we answer that quantitatively with parsers or qualitatively without is irrelevant.

[BigRed5392]

Got any evidence to back that claim up Big Red? Since its just a little research should be easy to go and cite it really quick.

I was having net issues, but anyone and everyone had a chance to watch any and all live letters. they are archived on both youtube and the forums.
this post and suggestion has come up over 12 times since ARR. A forum search, and google of the live letters would bring up info. People are so keen for others to research content in ff14 with just "google it" as a tip, don't be shocked when others suggest the same for repeat topics.

Yoshida is sick of seeing parser requests that he also noped out from a live letter at an event.

[Ilan]

snip
Yoshida is sick of seeing parser requests that he also noped out from a live letter at an event.

A lot of people are sick of his fetish for fates too but that doesn't prevent him from bringing that stuff back over and over again.

[Dualgunner]

I was having net issues, but anyone and everyone had a chance to watch any and all live letters. they are archived on both youtube and the forums.
this post and suggestion has come up over 12 times since ARR. A forum search, and google of the live letters would bring up info. People are so keen for others to research content in ff14 with just "google it" as a tip, don't be shocked when others suggest the same for repeat topics.

Yoshida is sick of seeing parser requests that he also noped out from a live letter at an event.

That's going a long way to say "You should do the legwork to back up my claims for me." To which I say no, and that which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.