Built-in Parsers

[Zarabeth]

well when someone ask for a personal parse for themselves then what would be the argument for the otherside exactly?

I would have no problem at all with personal parsers. The problem is when people use parsers to monitor other people's dps in order to judge them. Please don't try to tell me this doesn't happen as we both know it does. I'm glad FFXIV doesn't allow it as I hate to see people fight and be mean to each other. Not having a parser is just one less thing to use to bully others.

That said, I still would have no problem with a personal parser. I tend to use the striking dummies to see how i'm doing with my rotations and what I can do to add dps. It's not perfect, but it's there. I would even use a personal parser as long as it's just my own dps or healing that I'm seeing. There's no reason to see other's.

[kikix12]

"Oh stop with the victim attitude. Parsers are completely fine and never cause any issues ever except every MMO ever who fully allowed it proving otherwise"

"Oh stop with the victim attitude. PvP is completely fine and never causes any issues ever except in every MMO ever that allowed it proving otherwise."

- Typical Pro-PvP argument

See what I did there?! PvP undeniably does cause "toxicity" in community, as people start competing with each other and some take that a bit too far. Then the same goes for PvE, to which such a blank statement could be made. Or dungeon loot. Or cooperative mechanics. Or queue system like the duty roulette. Or being new...In the end, you can make such blanket statement on everything, so best just log off permanently...from the entire internet.

Nice thought?! Not really. That's why it's important to weight the "good" VS the "bad" and made decision based on that. Where is free will, there is ill will too, there is nothing that can be done that will not have instances of that.

Yeah sometimes it does suck that the majority gets punished for the actions of a few, but creating thread after thread after thread on this topic and in various ways just completely shutting down the concerns of the other side instead of actually adressing them, just makes people like OP seem like petulant kids throwing a tantrum because they cant have their favourite toy in the way they want.

This part shows that you didn't even bother reading past the title. Certainly not the many posts I made after the original one within the first three or so pages.
If you did...then what is "addressing the issue" to you?! Saying that parsers are no good?! That's ignorance at a level not worthy of discussion. Addressing an issue is looking for a way to minimize or remove it (impossible as it is entirely free will-based issue), while progressing with a plan. If a river floods the area near it every year but otherwise it's perfect for a settlement, addressing the issue is not finding a different spot. It's making something to stop the river from flooding the area, or make it as small as possible, to "salvage" at least part of the location, using the remainder for, like, rice plantation.

If you want a parser so badly. Play on PC and use ACT.

I want a parser that won't risk me losing the effect of the money and work invested because some random guy decided to be an asshole and another random guy didn't feel like doing their work properly investigating. I want one that would get me banned only if I actually acted like a jackass.

If you're not on PC then no, the game is litterally built around parsing software not being required, and trying to pretend otherwise is silly in the extreme

No one, certainly not me, said that parser is required to play the game. What I said is that some kind of calculation, which parsers make easier to do, is required to increase ones efficiency significantly. One can be a great player without parsers, but once that great player gets a parser, they may up their game even beyond that. On the other hand, a bad player even with parser may be hard-pressed to grow beyond the "average Joe/Jane"...but if they actually want to try, it's an easy way to get better.

Untill the day those advocating for parser software getting official implementation are able to even remotely entertain the opinion of the other side, then there's no point in even discussing this further as it's just gonna devolve into a shouting match

I have brought arguments one after another. This whole thread is entirely a suggestion on how to minimize the plausible negative impact of an in-game parser. And you? You didn't bring anything at all to the table. Only "Oh, he wants parsers, he's the pro-parser crowd that blindly suggest to implement it and doesn't care about us non-parser folk. He doesn't understand our blight and (yada yada yada...).".

[Zarabeth]

*snip*

The best suggestion I've seen is a personal parser. Since there's really no need to see what everyone else is doing, that would work perfectly for everyone.

Here's another suggestion, worry about what you do and not everyone else. If you are that worried that someone will mess up your perfection, make a static of other people as good as you are and go.

Also, by attacking Lazruz you are proving the point that this topic makes people act like jerks.

[Vahlnir]

The best suggestion I've seen is a personal parser. Since there's really no need to see what everyone else is doing, that would work perfectly for everyone.

Yeah, pretty much this. A parser is an excellent tool in the right hands, but I've seen enough of this community to know that it would be abused if there was an official parser. I also agree that people should worry about themselves more than others. Tried running a parser in WoW for a time and it actually made me do worse because I was constantly watching the numbers. Since then I've relied on my own ability to play my class/job well in any game. I know for a fact I do fairly well, both in WoW in XIV because I know my stuff. Am I the best of the best? No, of course not. But I've never once had anyone complain about my dps and this is because I DON'T use a parser.

[frostmagemari]

For the 17,845th time. They are not going to put a parser into the game. All the threads in the world aren't going to help because they know what toxicity parsers lead to.

As for what SQE knows.. they don't know that parsers turn people toxic, because they can't point to reliable instances of the introduction of parsers leading to an inhospitable environment. They only have anecdotal testimony from people who think that people will be elitist towards them; but people will do that anyway, even without a reason.

Just read the forums to see how people treat others on here. Parsers lead to even more of that crap. Move on already.

The forums are a very small subset of people, and honestly.. it's the people against the parsers that seem to act in a manner that's counter productive to discourse (but this is only anecdotal).

[Lazaruz]

and honestly.. it's the people against the parsers that seem to act in a manner that's counter productive to discourse (but this is only anecdotal).

You will never realistically defeat or dissuade the victimized mentality that a lot of the community and forum loves to have regarding parsers.

Yes because claiming everyone who doesnt agree with you have some kind of victim attitude is oh so productive

well when someone ask for a personal parse for themselves then what would be the argument for the otherside exactly?

Nice try, but the discussion isnt about personal parser, and has never been, as those in favour of the tool time and time again will use whatever strawman argument they need to justify having acess to numbers that arent their own

case and point

Because knowing how much damage your doing us useless information if you don't know why.

And in order to know why you need to know what the rest of your party is doing. What ast cards you got what debuffs the boss has. We're party buffs used did the ninja use trick attacks as much as he could have.

All of these things the 7 other people in your group do but you have no control over have a very significant impact on your personal dps.

Personal parsers simply won't work because all 8 people in the party contribute to your dps in varying amounts based on there jobs and how well they are playing.

You could take a Joe average 50th percentile monk for example and put in an elite group with 7 99th percentile players. And practically guarantee that monk isn't gonna be 50th percentile any more but way up there maybe 75th or 80th percentile player. Just because of the 7 people he's grouped with even if his standard of play hasn't actually improved

Now let me ask you all a question, did it ever occur to you that the game is quite litterally designed in such a way where parsing software isnt required, or why else would they cross-platform it with something that litterally cannot use parsers unless it's through ingame means? Or are you all just screaming because you cant tell people off for underperforming before you kick them?

[Oscura]

Yes because claiming everyone who doesnt agree with you have some kind of victim attitude is oh so productive

I've already stated I don't really care either way whether or not parsers are officially supported or not. I only parse in my static, my group of friends. Your hostile attitude is exactly why people completely shove aside anti-parsers altogether and their arguments. Learn to actually read the entire post next time. I said specifically that "I don't want parsers because someone might yell at me," is a victim mentality, which is undeniably true. To immediately assume someone will bully or yell at you means you are already making yourself out to be a victim before it even happens.

Maybe you should chill out?

[Lazaruz]

I've already stated I don't really care either way whether or not parsers are officially supported or not. I only parse in my static, my group of friends. Your hostile attitude is exactly why people completely shove aside anti-parsers altogether and their arguments. Learn to actually read the entire post next time. I said specifically that "I don't want parsers because someone might yell at me," is a victim mentality, which is undeniably true. To immediately assume someone will bully or yell at you means you are already making yourself out to be a victim before it even happens.

Maybe you should chill out?

I could say the same as you're quite rudely assuming I'm just making everything up, when I saw it first hand in MMO's like WoW

As someone who played WoW for 8 years and raided heroic and then mythic for 4 of those years the idea that parsers lead directly to toxicity is utterly ridiculous. Were there instances of people using recount or skada to point out low dps and thus ridicule players? Yes, absolutely. However it was and is not common. I can probably count the amount of times toxicity was generated from one of those tools on one hand.

I envy whatever server you were on. As where I hung out it was a constant thing, not just in endgame content, but even dungeons used for leveling purposes.

I guess the "anecdotal evidence" is in both camps after all, eh?

[frostmagemari]

Yes because claiming everyone who doesnt agree with you have some kind of victim attitude is oh so productive

Or are you all just screaming because you cant tell people off for underperforming before you kick them?

You kind of proved a few people's points by your post... Just saying.

[Lazaruz]

You kind of proved a few people's points by your post... Just saying.

I'm not saying I didnt. I'm saying I resent the accusation that only "one side" is being a problem