Prepared to answer the call? (Long)

[Biggs]

I feel like this thread can be written now that the only people left to respond are those that have paid to stay. I have been thinking about this over the last month or so, and I am curious to see what the community has to say on the matter.

So this is it guys and gals. The few thousand of us left that have chosen to brave the coming months out with SE are all here. While many of you (myself included) have at times felt neglected by SE as they prepare the 2.0 client, we have chosen to stick it out and see what the future brings regardless. For that I commend us. So many of us take on a sense of entitlement when we post on here about this game, and this past week especially I feel like I can say way. This is OUR game. We will shape how the community is run. WHile SE is certainly the owner and creator, we are the ones that have stood by and offered both applause and criticisms, and we are the ones that shape the living portion of this games destiny. The changes they are making are based on our feedback. We have been told to hold on any real progress in the game designed for the current player base in favor of them redoing the game in an effort to save it. We accept that and wait patiently. As important as that is, I feel like we still have work to do in the coming months and years.

When I first joined FFXI (before some of you roll your eyes, stay with me here a sec) the game had been out for 2 expansions already and had a fairly large veteran player base. A system had already been established by the current player base that entailed where to go to party at what level (grind camps), what job combinations were considered acceptable to party with, and what roll your class was expected to fullfill in a party. Even the protocol for seeking a party and leaving a party was established. ("I am leaving in 15 mins, would you like me to find a replacement?") But the veteran player base treated the influx of new players like a whiney little brother that you got stuck bringing along because your Mom said so. It almost made me give up before even trying. (I ended up playing happily for years)

Now I realize a good portion of the game is still being changed, so before this post gets miles longer, the question I pose to the community is, how many of us are prepared to step up and set the example for what type of community we want if this game gets going again? Those of us that are left now have to at least accept or admit that some part of you is hoping that this becomes a success and new people join, or else why be here and keep paying?

None of us use the new player search function right now. I definitely understand why, most of us no longer need to, or we belong to LS's that take care of us. But mark my words, that behavior will effect large amounts of new players coming into the game. If all they see is us neglecting search in favor of shouting in town, guess whats gonna happpen? What is the standard Linkshell edicate right now? Are you a member of 30 linkshells? Does your main Linkshell leader know? When you leave a party, how do you replace yourself? The Ul'dah thing alone scares me. I fear that, despite them changing the cities in the future, because most of us stay in Ul'dah full time, that will be where new players come too as well. If that is how we want, then thats ok, but I think that in the coming months, if we really do want to be successful and have a fun community, we need to start thinking now about how we want it to be. The economy also worries me. I hope that, when we get closer to relaunch, many of the crafting veterans take the time to pump out some cheap (REASONABLY PRICED!) low level gear for the newbies. I hope that greed can be set aside with the realazation that you can be fair and still fill your already full coffers even more.

I would love to turn this thread into a sounding board for our hopes and ideas about the future. And I can only hope, that at the very least, it gets some of us (especially the ls leaders) to look at what we are doing now and how it will effect a much larger player base should this relaunch work as planned.

I vow to start, this very day!, leaving my search for party tag on when playing solo! And I promise to use the search function FIRST to look for party members BEFORE starting 2 hour shout marathons when looking to group up! I also vow to keep any goods i put up for sale that are level 20 and below 10% cheaper than the current asking price for the same goods! (The level 50 gear will still be full price for all the Scrooge Mcducks and Tony Montanas out there!).

[Jynx]

Having a sense of entitlement just because we are paying for the game is the wrong way to go about it. I post so SE hears my ideas and those who agree with me. I don't post because I think I know best for the game, I just know what I would enjoy.

The only thing SE "Owes" us is to try the best they can to bring FFXIV back from the brink.

[Biggs]

Having a sense of entitlement just because we are paying for the game is the wrong way to go about it. I post so SE hears my ideas and those who agree with me. I don't post because I think I know best for the game, I just know what I would enjoy.

The only thing SE "Owes" us is to try the best they can to bring FFXIV back from the brink.

Come on man, thats really the one thing you felt obligated to pick out of all that and respond too? Thanks for making that the first response. I only meant that, because we have waited and stuck it out for so long without any real new content that advances the game, we have entrenched ourselves in it and invested in it so much that many of us have developed a small sense of entitlement to it. Because we still love it and we play it often, we come to think of some portion of it as ours. When I was in the army I used their equipment as I saw fit. It was really the Army's equipment ALL THE TIME, but because I used it everyday, and took care of it, and it took care of me, I developed a sense of entitlement to it. Thats all i meant; that I understand HOW that can happen, I wasn't judging it as right or wrong one way or the other.

Also, they make these types of games for players that pay. So in that sense it is OUR game, or we would all be playing something else. Its just as much yours as it is mine in terms of our relationship too it. I meant it in the way people mean it when they say, "that dude is my boy." Or "thats my dawg." I don't really believe I own it. Dick.

[Jynx]

I don't really believe I own it. Dick.

When you spend 2 paragraphs on a topic, especially when it's the first thing you talk about...Expect someone to reply to it.

As for the rest of the thread I guess I can respond to it as well here we go:

It's funny how you speak of how your "Entitlement" to your weapons and equipment in the army allowed you to use them as you seen fit (I'm assuming this is speaking of bending a few regulations and not doing everything exactly how you were told to) While I might not even consider this being "Entitled" more like being comfortable enough with your gear to know how you as a person can best operate your equipment that is esential to your own being...

Your example pokes a bunch of holes in your topics arguement. If LS leaders are "Entitled" and feel like shouting is the better way to find people rather than using the player search function are you not just doubling back on what you JUST SAID.

Players currently find the player search a needless part of finding people, we all know that currently few people use it or don't know they want a Ifrit/Moogle/Darkhold party until they hear "Hay Guys we are 6/8 wana come!?" In the same sense that shouting in Jueno/Whitegate was a good way to find people ontop of the player search system. Just because we have evolved a way to form parties that works outside the system doesn't mean it's wrong.

The player search system still exists and people DO use it, and people DO search it. The shouts are usually a extra layer on-top of the search to aquire members.

You might not notice it but how we act is how we feel comfortable playing the game, SE can add as many doo-dads and widgets they want but if the current community doesn't find them intuitive enough to use them then perhaps SE needs to tweak the system instead of you asking us to bend our habbits to a system we find needlessly cumbersome.

Was that a good enough 3rd post for you?

[Biggs]

When you spend 2 paragraphs on a topic, especially when it's the first thing you talk about...Expect someone to reply to it.

SE needs to tweak the system instead of you asking us to bend our habbits to a system we find needlessly cumbersome.


Was that a good enough 3rd post for you?

You blast me for mentioning entitlement and then make the above statement about what SE needs to do for you?
No one uses the search function on Kashuan. And I had stated that if we do feel comfortable shouting instead of using it, thats fine too. I understand that we do the things that we do in the game because they work best. But much of that developed along side the tools we had at our disposal. We didnt have the player search function up until this past month, so in response to that, we developed our own system. I totally understand that, just as I understand that whats happeneing on my server may not be happening everywhere, but it is my only frame of reference. I am not asking anyone here to change what works for them, rather, the point of the post, which you have chosen to miss in favor of semantics, is to remind us to be mindful in the coming months of what and how we do things as a community because it will shape said community in the future for good or for ill. If shouting becomes the favored method of party searching, so be it. But in that particular regard we have options now we didn't have before, and this frees us to make choices.

And no, none of your posts have been good because I was asking to hear hopes and ideas about the future, not have some F@%^tard pick two sentences out of a long post and have it become the entire topic of discussion. I mention entitlement one time in an otherwise long post, one which has me state IN THE POST the purpose and intent behind what I hope to discuss, and here you are, like the one relative on xmas everyone was hoping wouldn't show, asking why dinner isn't ready yet.

The last part of my post was just how I intend to set an example in my own way. I certainly don't claim it to be the best way or the only way. And while I hope to inspire people to do the same, I don't EXPECT them too. Trying to be positive in anyway seems to be an impossibily in this community, and I am begining to understand why positive threads are so rare on the English forums now.

[Jynx]

I was asking to hear hopes and ideas about the future, not have some ____ pick two sentences out of a long post and have it become the entire topic of discussion.

Why so mad?

I guess you don't like the fact that your entire post back-fired on you. Nobody is going to post their "Ideas for the future" here because that's what the ENTIRE board is for. Take a look at the first page of threads everyone has a thread about their ideas for the future and hopes, dreams, hates, dislikes and the such. Your post is redundant.

To be more on-topic of your post about the player search. If the player search was that amazing and intuitive that it was a better option than just plain shouting...people would start using it. Hell if everyone used the player search it would be a good system but even if it was in the game from day 1 the same problems would still exist.

People need to actually express their intent to do ____ content, 9/10 times people don't usually go that far to say they are ready and willing to do someting. Hell most my Stronghold parties and Ifrit runs come from my interest being piqued when I see a group almost ready to go and shouting for one of my jobs.

"Reminding us that what we do effects the future of the game"

I guess I might as well start telling people that breathing is what keeps them alive, the point is so obvious and known to all that it doesn't even need to be stated. Of course how we play the game will change how the community grows...guh your getting bent out of shape because you are grasping at a reason to even have a thread like this.

I hope and dream people will stop making redundant threads.

[Colino]

Having a sense of entitlement just because we are paying for the game is the wrong way to go about it. I post so SE hears my ideas and those who agree with me. I don't post because I think I know best for the game, I just know what I would enjoy.

The only thing SE "Owes" us is to try the best they can to bring FFXIV back from the brink.

That's hardly the main point of his argument at all though. You should pay more attention to the rest of the post.

[weeble]

Having a sense of entitlement just because we are paying for the game is the wrong way to go about it. I post so SE hears my ideas and those who agree with me. I don't post because I think I know best for the game, I just know what I would enjoy.

The only thing SE "Owes" us is to try the best they can to bring FFXIV back from the brink.

this was probably what i wanted to reply about first too, also to add that everyone is still on the forums that still not paying. i think it's a full 30days or something b4 we are removed? by then half of them probably will try the dungeons on .21? either way ..past that

i agree at what you say in some of it, i think we need to create a new edicate in game, no leaving groups without warning or replacing, use the search function (though the search is still kinda useless, they should add a way to lfg while in party still for one thing) also linkshells right now are a joke to me, everyone is running them like ffxi linkshells but there is 0 full linkshell endgame. this type of shells are really how guilds work in other games where your all puging endgame inside your own shell only. and leaders make you only run with your linkshell even though it's obvious there isn't room for everyone in every run ...derp 8man dungeons.. less you only running 8man linkshells. lots of problems with this game and how it is being run but most of them will disapear soon as a real population is on the servers and ps3 launches an real endgame type stuff starts coming out.

as for baby'ing new players, i think new players just need to gather together just as we did. they need to take the same time it took everyone else to get where they are going. i say just stop taking lowbies into a full 50linkshell and all is well. someone will lead them all, is better then them being scattered threw linkshells, it's like people who play 10hrs a day being scattered into 40shells with casuals, they would of been better off in one ls(like hnmls in ffxi lol).

when it comes to gear in wards i kinda agree but it's not really new players buying them ...i mean how many new players come into the game really. it's just people that how you say ...feel entitled to cheap stuff. most players can afford it right now, it's just that the low pop keeps these prices high ...it's not like in other mmo's this is happening. it's a problem with empty servers. it should be fixed by merging. most games start off high in price and goes down, in this game it's just not going down cause no one crafting them ...u can spend your days making them for lowbies but really it's a bit much to ask of peoples time. that's my opinion though. in ffxi one of the only few rules in linkshell was no begging for gils in linkshell lol, and that included crafts. no one really ask for things like they do in this game(other then abjurations and stuff), though it has slowed down a lot since launch when it was empty wards and needed to ask people. if you can't afford arrows you shouldn't be a archer, sounds stupid but that is how i think of it in this game.

last thoughts are in ffxi ...i did 99% of my party grinds with different people in every party. 700days of game play, 8 rank 75's all different people. not statics, not just linkshell people, almost never linkshell players actually. lots of people of other languages as well on top of that. with ease of population, of search function, and people just rolled like that in that game, it wasn't all being done in linkshell. in warhammer after it's first year the game died, and all of sudden nothing was done shouting, you could shout and get a dungeon in 5mins going first year then never again after that, it became hoping you were part of the 6people of the 8-11 that can run it and were active(or leaving to find a new guild that hopefully had room for you). and that type of stuff don't cut it and it's exactly what is happened to ffxiv. and it's not worth paying for.

also while i think you guys might start trends in the next year of playing ...i think the mass flood of players at 2.0 might change everything you do if it don't fit the game at 2.0. like vent for all endgame, people will just flood to the ps3 run shells and over power in any endgame that has competition in it(that is if people dont' want vent...example). but the things you do create as you said i hope are for the good of the game and all it's player base not just the few. and even though i'm usually always in the few category i can't stand being around a game that pans out horribly community wise. i quit b4 even entering moggle fight, and i blame the community and i blame the population and how linkshells are being run. this game won't stand a chance if you guys keep at it the way you are but i blame the population ..it just gives less people more power to run it very badly.

[Chango]

I do know what you mean...
I worried about the same thing, peeps coming into the game with so many closed communities on the server.

The Solution:
Adopt a Newb

A couple of weeks ago, while mindlessly crafting, i noticed a shout from someone saying "I need a friend! Everyone left "
Then the person popped up on my screen while i was running towards the wards, stopped and talked to him. I then made a linkshell so he could communicate with me easily. At this pont... we need to keep as many peeps playing the game as possible, so always lend a helping hand.

[Biggs]

I do know what you mean...
I worried about the same thing, peeps coming into the game with so many closed communities on the server.

The Solution:
Adopt a Newb

A couple of weeks ago, while mindlessly crafting, i noticed a shout from someone saying "I need a friend! Everyone left "
Then the person popped up on my screen while i was running towards the wards, stopped and talked to him. I then made a linkshell so he could communicate with me easily. At this pont... we need to keep as many peeps playing the game as possible, so always lend a helping hand.

In a way, this community may be more closed off by the time 2.0 rolls out than many MMOs before it. What would be worse than a huge group of new people joining, injecting some more life into the game, only to be run off by the current player base? Trying to buy low level gear right now on my server is ridiculous. It has certainly gotten better since the introduction of a history but, there aren't enough low level things for sale in the Ul'dah wards to make a head to toe outfit from cheaply at the optimal level. Things like that will only get worse as SE brings out higher level content that moves the current and only player base foward. We have the makings here of some serious gaps in wealth and class that could easily hinder new players and their first time experience with the game.

Your suggestion to adopt a newb is spot on, and exactly the kind of attitude any of our communities could use.