Free-to-play?

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Can I ask why people are so against having a "f2P" label, when right now, we have "f2p" model gated behind a sub?

The "F2P" feeling of this game is extremely non-existent in comparison to actual F2P games I've played and worked on in the past. With a sub model, the developers are capable of making the vast majority of content free (within the context of the base sub price that is.) because they're getting a consistent, steady income. With actual F2P the developers have to make up the consistent profits by designing the vast majority of content purely to milk people's wallets. Yoshi-P was extremely accurate on his words about the F2P market: it is an industry that relies on milking money quickly in bursts than providing a constant stream of content/quality/etc. I've even worked on F2P games where everyone on the dev team explicitly knew it was being designed to last maybe a month or two.

There's also the fact the stuff they're nickeling is extremely optional. There are many F2P games that lock off actual options and UI stuff behind paywalls. I think The Old Republic even locks or used to lock hotbars behind cash. I know quite a few friends who've never payed for retainers or purchased mogstation stuff outside of fantasias, and I'd prefer to keep that stuff optional, than suddenly being forced to pay for basic things integral to gameplay.

You think we're being nickel and dimed now? it could easily be 10x worse in a F2P system. That $15 a month would look like the best bargain in comparison to the horrors a true F2P system could potentially bring. That's why I, and I bet quite many others, would prefer to keep our sub label and deal with the minor nickel and diming they throw at us. it's the lesser of twin evils.

[Fhaerron]

DO we play the same game? the more frequent pug experiences I had, along with that long ranting thread, is enough for me to say I disagree and you have no proof. "Bads" as you put it do pay subs, and for this game, a large number of them. It is an illusion, we are playing a F2P model, but its locked behind a sub, they are double dipping.

I would welcome this game be f2p to stop the double dipping since they charge so much in microtransactions as is.

My proof is all the F2P games on the market. And take a look at RIFT the day they changed from sub to F2P mentality change instantly and people waving with visa card for best gear from day one.

I'm not necessarily talking about people wiping on a stack marker with bads, I mostly mean the attitude and it's already bad enough as it is.

Also, I have a better solution how about keep the sub but remove the microtransactions?

[Roda]

I wouldn't mind seeing a PLEX, CREDD, WowToken type system for XIV.
Allow people to not have to pay the sub fee, gives Gil more of a purpose and another sink in the way of a sales tax, and combats Gil sellers at the same time.

[ko_]

Let's just get rid of that idea. It won't happen and also due to the fact that as someone who has played many F2P games..the communities in those games are generally horrid. It is terrible to see a person PK someone over and over again while screaming racial slurs at them.

Because this fanbase for XIV is any better? Take a look around here on this very site. If anything I'd say it's WORSE here then most games... even sonic ones.

[RopeDrink]

Let's just get rid of that idea. It won't happen and also due to the fact that as someone who has played many F2P games..the communities in those games are generally horrid. It is terrible to see a person PK someone over and over again while screaming racial slurs at them.

Because this fanbase for XIV is any better? Take a look around here on this very site. If anything I'd say it's WORSE here then most games... even sonic ones.

The above applies to every MMO and MMORPG in existence. in fact, every single community, both real and digital, has their bad eggs. The more competitive the game/scene, the more primal the bad eggs become (eg. real sports, MOBA's etc).

Having said that, if you honestly believe the FFXIV community (in-game or forum-based) is as bad as you claim, then please don't be offended if I assume that you haven't seen too many gaming communities before making that judgement, though it is not right for either myself (nor yourself) to assume their individual experience here is the same for everyone else, so let's settle on the fact we have conflicting experience on the subject.

Games you described above, such as Black Desert - which is a PvP MMORPG, thus such type of behaviour is actually expected - it is natural to view it as toxic when such play is free to become the norm.

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Now, as to the topic of F2P: Considering SE themselves have vehemently gone against the very notion of F2P, it boggles my mind how these rumours even come about. Last I heard, SE would rather shut the game down entirely instead of reform it into an F2P model. I guess you could say every community also generates its naysayers and doom-sayers.

[ko_]

The above applies to every MMO and MMORPG in existence. in fact, every single community, both real and digital, has their bad eggs. The more competitive the game/scene, the more primal the bad eggs become (eg. real sports, MOBA's etc).

Having said that, if you honestly believe the FFXIV community (in-game or forum-based) is as bad as you claim, then please don't be offended if I assume that you haven't seen too many gaming communities before making that judgement, though it is not right for either myself (nor yourself) to assume their individual experience here is the same for everyone else, so let's settle on the fact we have conflicting experience on the subject.

Games you described above, such as Black Desert - which is a PvP MMORPG, thus such type of behaviour is actually expected - it is natural to view it as toxic when such play is free to become the norm.

-----

Now, as to the topic of F2P: Considering SE themselves have vehemently gone against the very notion of F2P, it boggles my mind how these rumours even come about. Last I heard, SE would rather shut the game down entirely instead of reform it into an F2P model. I guess you could say every community also generates its naysayers and doom-sayers.

I go to every forum on every game I jump into. sonic and the general fighting game fanbases are pretty toxic... but this one is up there as well. It might not be as in your face about it. but it's up there. The way people attack each other for a different opinion on different subjects like DPS, or raids is insane. Alot of it is tame compared to COD yhes,, but that doesn't mean it's not bad. This isn't care bear land.. just cause we don't have death threaths here doesn't mean it isn't toxic here either.

[Theodric]

The word 'toxic' is thrown around far too frequently and far too easily these days.

[Hamada]

The "F2P" feeling of this game is extremely non-existent in comparison to actual F2P games I've played and worked on in the past. With a sub model, the developers are capable of making the vast majority of content free because they're getting a consistent, steady income. With actual F2P the developers have to make up the consistent profits by designing the vast majority of content purely to milk people's wallets. Yoshi-P was extremely accurate on his words about the F2P market: it is an industry that relies on milking money quickly in bursts than providing a constant stream of content/quality/etc. I've even worked on F2P games where everyone on the dev team explicitly knew it was being designed to last maybe a month or two.

There's also the fact the stuff they're nickeling is extremely optional. There are many F2P games that lock off actual options and UI stuff behind paywalls. I think The Old Republic even locks or used to lock hotbars behind cash. I know quite a few friends who've never payed for retainers or purchased mogstation stuff outside of fantasias, and I'd prefer to keep that stuff optional, than suddenly being forced to pay for basic things integral to gameplay.
You think we're being nickel and dimed now? it could easily be 10x worse in a F2P system. That $15 a month would look like the best bargain in comparison to the horrors a true F2P system could potentially bring. That's why I, and I bet quite many others, would prefer to keep our sub label and deal with the minor nickel and diming they throw at us. it's the lesser of twin evils.

It is a sub model, they should be fixing inventory problems, not trying to make people buy retainers. I do not like the double dipping and the retainers feel far from "optional" It is double dipping, and people fall for it, I am shocked. "It can be worse" does not excuse them double dipping as is. "lesser of the twin evils" is why they are getting away with it, "oh it can be worse" sorry, that does not sit well with me. This game is a F2P locked behind a sub, "it being worse in other games" will not change that view.

They do not need charge for retainers, they do not even put much money back into the game, that is why all the content is copy/paste. They just want to keep milking the player base while pretending like they are not doing so. They just lost 47.97 dollars a month (she added it just now because at times she paid for 7 retainers and ffxi account w/ legacy 6 month price.) because of this mess of a situation from my friend pulling FFXI and FFXIV subs.

Also, I have a better solution how about keep the sub but remove the microtransactions?

I agree, my point though is i want to see one or the other, stop having overpriced mircotransactions behind a sub. Remove the sub, or remove/change the prices on the microtransactions. My friend that I wrote that quit post for is really mad over reading that quote. Ill leave out the more headed comments and just say, all that shows is Yoshi-p is out of touch of the current state of the game, because the prices of things does not fit what he said.

[Reynhart]

"It can be worse" does not excuse them double dipping as is.

This is not an excuse, it's a reason why people don't want the game becoming full "Free 2 Play". Worse case scenario, in a F2P FFXIV, you'd have to pay to have access to the Armory System, locking you into a single job.

[Ilan]

Can I ask why people are so against having a "f2P" label, when right now, we have "f2p" model gated behind a sub?

Having the mogstation doesn't make the game the game model a f2p model. Incredible how people always claim that as soon as there is a shop in a p2p game.

Get over yourself and stop thinking you OWN the game just because you pay a sub....