How's Ultimate?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

People are just simply arguing with numbers here the numbers are so small in life majority rules always, so if they where gona bring this out they should of brought out eureka along with it or something that actually most players could take part in instead of makin an instance that maybe a hand full of people would clear. People act like world first players are major rock stars or something like nobody cares its nice but nobody plays the game to watch other people do content.

You really need to stop this false equivalency nonsense. It's the same argument you made prior to Ultimate's release. The content recycles existing assets. Everything from models, animations, attacks, arena and etc. were reused. Yes, they included a few new things but the bulk of development resources had already existed. Eureka, on the other hand, is entirely brand new content that necessitating a whole new arena, leveling, animations, story, model and so forth. Put simply, if they scrapped Ultimate, we still weren't getting Eureka.

Edit: Regardless, you are severely underestimating how the raid community can impact this game. More and more high end raiders are simply getting bored because they have nothing exciting or noteworthy to look forward to. Should they start leaving, who will be making all the guides, who will be joining PFs, who will be consistently running content or even simply buying things from the market boards? Just like how FFXIV suffered when all its raids were too hard, it will equally suffer if everything becomes too easy. People keep asking for more midcore level content. Savage has transitioned into "midcore". Now Ultimate is filling the niche for hardcore players.

[HyoMinPark]

People are just simply arguing with numbers here the numbers are so small in life majority rules always, so if they where gona bring this out they should of brought out eureka along with it or something that actually most players could take part in instead of makin an instance that maybe a hand full of people would clear. People act like world first players are major rock stars or something like nobody cares its nice but nobody plays the game to watch other people do content.

Personally speaking, I am glad that they delayed Eureka. Because if Eureka was just another Diadem, that would have been really bad for this game and this game’s developers. Considering that Ultimate is a lot of reused assets from the Coils, and Eureka is supposedly going to be entirely new content in forms of maps, content, etc.. The fact that it was delayed so that they could, hopefully, work on the content more, that will hopefully mean that it will be a million times better, and not another Diadem.

As for your “nobody plays the game to watch other people do content”, is that why, between Xenos’ and MrHappy’s streams on the hour they began streaming Ultimate was just shy of 10,000 viewers combined? Is that why groups like NEST are popular? People do watch other people play this game, and are entertained by it. So that statement is blatantly false.

[bswpayton]

You really need to stop this false equivalency nonsense. It's the same argument you made prior to Ultimate's release. The content

Only time will tell so far doesnt seem like anyone has cleared it I know one streamer has already put in 21 hours that 99 percentile so If they are having this much issue then I really dont think its as many hardcore people that are ready for this as u think but time will tell. And even still we are still talkin about a few thousand people I really dont see them havin that much of an impact as you believe they would. Its just funny how you call content where the drop off rate is basically half on flogs for neo exdeath midcore compared to v2s. Just shows that some people are truely out of touch with reality we are arguing over a handful of people with this game has 100s of thousands of players.

[SDaemon]

Only time will tell so far doesn't seem like anyone has cleared it I know one streamer has already put in 21 hours

Trying to think of how this is a negative in this situation....

[bswpayton]

Personally speaking, I am glad that they delayed Eureka. Because if Eureka was just another Diadem, that would have been really bad for this game and this game’s developers. Considering that Ultimate is a lot of reused assets from the Coils, and Eureka is supposedly going to be entirely new content .

Because you guys are talkin about drop in the bucket numbers , you are making a few thousand people seem like a hundred thousand people when in reality its very far from it. Im lookin at the real number a few thousand and you are simple exaggerating the number to make it seem bigger than it really is. I watched xenos stream, he got alot of subs that day I already said this was streamer bait either on this post are on another because thats who this was made for.

Stop pretending like its just this mass wave of people who think neoexdeath , or v3s is easy thats just ur opinion when in fact numbers from flogs tell a totally different story. Im pretty sure you could dig up the old creator numbers and see that a9s, and 10s has a way higher clear rate than 11 or 12. Thats the divider right there its in the very raids we have now, sorry that it wasnt good enough for u but obviously just from floggs you can see that the player base stalled out on 3 and 4.

And you can essentially cut the number in half from those whom have cleared neoexdeath because this is suppose to be alot harder than even that, in any other situation when we are talkin about 100s of thousands of people people would look at a mere tiny 4 or 5 thousand and see it as nothing. But I guess to defend your case you have to make it seem bigger than what it is are youd have no argument.

[Vaer]

Stuff

It's possible to have fun and not clear something. Going by clear rates isn't even the full picture. I guarantee you that there are still people working on O3S/O4S, man maybe even 1S and 2S which aren't even represented in current logs. Some of the people doing them won't ever clear but the content still was used. Getting so caught up in unofficial numbers is narrow minded. I mean a couple thousand people having access to it is still not "5" people.

[HyoMinPark]

Because you guys are talkin about drop in the bucket numbers , you are making a few thousand people seem like a hundred thousand people when in reality its very far from it. Im lookin at the real number a few thousand and you are simple exaggerating the number to make it seem bigger than it really is. I watched xenos stream, he got alot of subs that day I already said this was streamer bait either on this post are on another because thats who this was made for.

Stop pretending like its just this mass wave of people who think neoexdeath , or v3s is easy thats just ur opinion when in fact numbers from flogs tell a totally different story. Im pretty sure you could dig up the old creator numbers and see that a9s, and 10s has a way higher clear rate than 11 or 12. Thats the divider right there its in the very raids we have now, sorry that it wasnt good enough for u but obviously just from floggs you can see that the player base stalled out on 3 and 4.

And you can essentially cut the number in half from those whom have cleared neoexdeath because this is suppose to be alot harder than even that, in any other situation when we are talkin about 100s of thousands of people people would look at a mere tiny 4 or 5 thousand and see it as nothing. But I guess to defend your case you have to make it seem bigger than what it is are youd have no argument.

I’m not saying it’s a majority; I’m refuting your absolute that “no one” watches people play this game or “no one” watches other people do content or “nobody” wanted Ultimate. You are the one speaking in absolutes here.

As for clear rates, of course, the first floor of a tier is going to be—and should be—easier than the final floor. If it wasn’t, then a lot of raiders would be extremely disappointed, and would probably seriously question the developer’s design choices (though, they already do that now with regards to some things). I wouldn’t want V4S to be as easy as V1S was, which, by the way, a lot of top groups killed Alte Rolte in a single pull. Perhaps you should read my posts again, since I never said that Neo was easy, but that he was easier than his predecessors (Alexander Prime, Brute Justice, Living Liquid)—there is a difference between something being “easy” and something being “easier” than the fights that came before it. Also, again, I never said that my posts were anything more than opinions, and never claimed them to be facts. Where as you, on the other hand, keep talking about your opinion on Ultimate (as you have done since it was announced), and trying to pass it off as fact by misrepresenting your number data.

Savage is supposed to be the most challenging content in the game, but it’s constantly teetering towards more “midcore” because more people want to do Savage, and complain when anything is the least bit difficult for them—rather than put in the effort to get better. While I think there’s nothing wrong with more people wanting to do Savage content, I don’t think the answer lies in developers constantly making it easier just because some people don’t want to try. I think that the developers also intentionally made some fights easier after Gordias basically killed off a good portion of the raid scene due to poor testing—they had to get more people raiding again, and Midas clear rates were also probably still low because so many people quit after Gordias.

However, all that being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the developers putting something like Ultimate in this game, even if it were just for a small percentage of players. You want to try and give your entire target audience something. More hardcore players are not going to be satisfied with the Expert dungeons or with Eureka or Perform or whatever; a lot of them wanted this. I’m sorry that you find that so incredibly offensive that a group of the playerbase—small or not—wanted something like this.

We get it: you don’t like Ultimate. But, sadly, you don’t make the decision about what content is placed in this game, and what content is not. People asked for and wanted Ultimate, and they got it. End of story. Don’t like it? Well no one is forcing you to do it.

[Nerisu]

And for something that under 10k people will even do shouldn't be the highlight of a patch right after an expansion was released.

When did this happen? As far as I know, the highlight of patch 4.1 is the Ivalice raid. Meanwhile, Ultimate is just a small slice of the whole patch.

[FateAudax]

-Bird droppings-

All I'm getting from you is basically a glorified-elongated version of "I can't do it. Therefore, it is a waste of resources.".

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Only time will tell so far doesnt seem like anyone has cleared it I know one streamer has already put in 21 hours that 99 percentile so If they are having this much issue then I really dont think its as many hardcore people that are ready for this as u think but time will tell. And even still we are still talkin about a few thousand people I really dont see them havin that much of an impact as you believe they would. Its just funny how you call content where the drop off rate is basically half on flogs for neo exdeath midcore compared to v2s. Just shows that some people are truely out of touch with reality we are arguing over a handful of people with this game has 100s of thousands of players.

That is precisely what hardcore raiders have been asking for. WoW raids have taken upwards of five weeks for their World First equivalent. Regardless, you completely missed my point. Yes, the raid community is a minority but you're ignoring the trickle down effect. Say all the raiders up and quit, you have no one creating guides or helping less experienced players clear. What about crafters? Less people buying crafted gear means less interest in making it. This will inevitably cause other players to leave. Could other players replace the Xenos and Mizzteqs? Of course, but now you have a new raid community who... is bored. And thus, the cycle repeats. Now this doesn't mean XIV would collapse, but I imagine SE wants to garner more interest not less. They accomplish that by appealing to every demographic, not just more casual-minded players.

You can't simply point to the majority and claim only their opinion matters. If you want to complain 4.1 didn't offer enough. I'll jump aboard that bandwagon, but stop saying Ultimate essentially stole content. It's recycled assets to create something you don't find appealing. Deal with it.