How's Ultimate?

[TheFanciestBard]

I raided enough in 2.0 to see Baha and Nael, didn't raid much at all in 3.0, and came back to the raid game for 4.0. This savage tier is fun but felt less punishing and more accessible which was nice given I am midcore at best, above average but nothing special. So with that context out of the way....

Ultimate is tons of fun. The wipes are so brutally fast and the mechanics are so tight, it feels amazing to get things right. Because it's optional there's no real frustration about missing out on pages or gear or future fights, so that helps a lot. I ground out Twin for over 2 hours last night, didn't beat her, but the feeling of how buttery smooth the fight ran when people were consistently getting to <20% is something I haven't seen since 2.0. I don't find it frustrating at all, it's just darn fun content. The last time I had this much enjoyment during raiding was 4.0 Hali Drg when I had my LoTD windows planned out and the flow of the fight was so smooth~

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Let's stop acting like everything shares the belief that the content is a push over when looking at things from ones on pov.

The inevitably counterpart is the easier everything is by design, the less motivation people have to improve. I firmly believe the dreadfully high skill gap is rooted on the fact XIV jumps from faceroll easy to hardmore with minimal in-between. Content has become noticeably easier since Stormblood launched. You can't just point to bad players and say "see they can't do it! So it isn't faceroll!" I hate to be blunt, but players dying to Susano EX either are new to the encounter or simply aren't good at their job because, yes, he's really easy.

Regardless, the issue people like myself have taken is this is the first instance in years the devs catered to the raid community and people who either haven't cleared Neo or don't raid at all are the ones mostly whining. If you want to say 4.1 overall has sparse content, go ahead. Just stop blaming us because you want everything to be easy.

I dont get why folks are complaining about this. The rest of the content is aimed at the casual player base so having one fight aimed at the hardcore crowd should be fine. Static's going in on Saturday so I can't wait to prog this! The fight looks insanely fun from what I've gathered from watching 5150's stream. THE HYPEEEEEEE!!!!

Because it's something they can't do and are attributing this primarily recycled fight as the reason they don't get even more new content. It happens with PvP too. Some people just can't fathom not everything will be designed for their interests.

[NoctusT]

I dont get why folks are complaining about this. The rest of the content is aimed at the casual player base so having one fight aimed at the hardcore crowd should be fine. Static's going in on Saturday so I can't wait to prog this! The fight looks insanely fun from what I've gathered from watching 5150's stream. THE HYPEEEEEEE!!!!

[kikix12]

While the dungeons are easy and certainly, and it's just pull as many adds as possible. The money put into them is worth more than making content that maybe 10k out of 500k will take part in.

Extremely wrong. Most people WILL burn out, no matter how much fresh content Square Enix will chug out. It is the HARDCORE gamers that are the most constant stream of money. They may not be numerous, yes, but they can be depended on for years. This is how all games (other than Buy Once, Play for Life ones) work.

Second, it is vastly superior business-wise, to cater to as wide an amount of community as possible. But unlike how you think, catering to part here and to part there IS better. As an example, let's think of the PvE and PvP. The two major content types, many players preferring one over the other in a significant amount. Let's, for the sake of argument, say that you have 100 people interested in PvP, 100 people interested in PvE, and out of these 50% of each like both. Now, if a game is 100% PvE, you have 100 happy players, 50 decently amused players that will get bored more easily and 50 players that will not touch the game. The exact same if the game is 100% PvP. But what happens if the game have PvE and PvP, both being viable in a significant deal?! You get 200 people, 100 of which will play it for years with little risk of getting bored for long, and 100 mostly quite happy with some hiccups here or there.

Making content of varied types, especially one that does not force players with other preferences into it, is very much worthwhile financially, even if there is a small amount of people. If difficult raid content like this will become more numerous, it will draw hardcore raiders that wouldn't even bother trying the game, it will strengthen the "hold" on the ones that are already playing it, and it will hardly have any effect on the majority that would not even bother trying, like you or me.

Proof of that?! Easy. Just ask a bunch of people what they like most in the game, what keeps them playing the most, and ignoring the "community and friends" answers (since they are not game-relevant), you will notice quite some variety to the answers. And the same if you will ask about the part of the game that they could not possibly care any less than they do. And you'll notice then that the same things that are irrelevant to some, are exactly what holds others interested.

[HyoMinPark]

While the dungeons are easy and certainly, and it's just pull as many adds as possible. The money put into them is worth more than making content that maybe 10k out of 500k will take part in.

I have taken part in more Savage content than I have Expert Dungeon since before Stormblood even launched. Why? Because the Savage content offers me more of a challenge than a dungeon where I basically spam an AOE skill, and then spam a couple other skills for a boss that I don’t even have to know the mechanics for to beat. I don’t even have to do a proper rotation to clear a dungeon, where as it’s far more likely I will clear Savage with one, and I mostly definitely need to know mechanics in Savage, where as one can basically ignore the majority of them in 4-mans.

Not everyone thinks that the 4-man dungeons are the most intriguing content in this game. I avoid doing them most days because they just feel like a chore, and they’re boring. And I’m not the only one who feels this way.

I love when people in statics call all content easy.

It’s not just “people in statics” that think a lot of the content in this game is easy.

This fight while nice just wasn't warranted, it's proof in the numbers many peoples flogs stop at v2s or 3s. Let's stop acting like everything shares the belief that the content is a push over when looking at things from ones on pov.

You do realize that not EVERYONE uploads to FFLogs, right? When I was doing Creator Savage, I didn’t upload to FFLogs. And I’m not sure what “content” you’re referring to, but if you’re considering the 4-man Expert dungeons hard then, I’m sorry, you are most definitely in the minority there. Ultimate was made for the people that asked for and wanted more. Therefore, not unwarranted. Just because you don’t have the desire to do the content doesn’t mean that it was unwanted content in the first place.

[bswpayton]

The inevitably counterpart .

First dungeons are dungeons they will always be easy. Never said susano was hard I get annoyed when people call v3s and v4s shiyru etc easy especially those in statics. It\\'s simply totally different doing only things with random and people u always do content with stop being delusional. And having a parser while half the player base doesn\\'t, or call outs, and not having to worry about someone leaving ur group after one wipe. Let\\'s stop acting like the approaches are the same in my opinion I respect those whom pug the whole tier and aren\\'t dismissive to other people more than someone that\\'s been in a static. I don\\'t want everything to be easy the defs have stated people have had trouble with the raids we have now u know they have actual data. While everyone in forums like this make offhand comments about how easy things are while even fflogs data and SE have numbers to back it up with facts.

[Kallera]

I guess the question is how many Playstation users get around to doing this, considering the "advantages" of pc players.

[bswpayton]

I have taken part in more Savage content than I have Expert Dunge.

Never said the freaking expert dungeons where hard. Read a live letter the devs said we expected people to clear 1 and 2 and struggle with 3 and 4. And flogs back that up get off ur high horse has nothing to do with me. I'm stating facts from devs and collective data ur just talking about ur opinion

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Easy relative to what came before. Shinryu and V3S aren't particularly hard fights, especially not the former. Say you can't claim that because you have a static is foolhardy. Do you think everyone just stumbled into getting one? It's called effort. You'll have to actually dedicate time and energy whereas the overwhelming majority of content can be easily pugged. EX Primal necessitate more effort and a willingness to learn, which only increases the higher up the totem pole you climb. Getting into a static can be seen as apart of said dedication, though some opt to stay freelancer knowing it will be harder. Perhaps if people put in more effort to clear instead of complaining, they might get somewhere. The amount of people you see in PF who can't even perform a basic opener is astounding. Look no further than Zurvan. He wasn't hard, people just tried to brute force through without putting in some effort to learn their jobs or actually do mechanics and died.

If JP players can amass decent clear rates, there is no reason we can't. Now there is plenty of fault to go around. Plenty of raiders lack any patience and XIV does a piss poor job teaching you how a serviceable rotation works. That said, my bad experiences are more akin to the Zurvan examples.

[HyoMinPark]

Never said the freaking expert dungeons where hard. Read a live letter the devs said we expected people to clear 1 and 2 and struggle with 3 and 4. And flogs back that up get off ur high horse has nothing to do with me. I'm stating facts from devs and collective data ur just talking about ur opinion

If you’re citing Live Letters and “hard facts”, then source them, then. Since you’re so insistent on proving that your point is “right.” As for what you’re referring to, you should probably make your posts more clear so that others can understand what you’re saying. Because, from what I gathered, you’ve been discussing your opinion on Ultimate this entire thread, and how unwarranted it is. That sounds very opinionated to me.

As for your comparison to PUGs and statics, you realize that statics can stuggle just as much with tiers than PUGs can, right? Static members can have members just rage-quit after a couple wipes because they just aren’t feeling it one night. My first static was stuck on v3s for 5-6 weeks because of the constant rotation of healers and OTs we had, and a lot of people, including myself, just left the party after a few wipes to Hali because it gets frustrating wiping to the same thing over and over. My second static has off-nights where our v1s runs are ridiculously messy for whatever reason—just last night 3 of us lagged out in the middle of V3S and we spent far longer than necessary on it.

You’re making it sound like PUGs try harder than those with statics, and that is not always the case; people in statics try just as hard. Perhaps, instead of telling people to get off of their high horse, you should stop your broad generalizations. PUGs don’t always have it harder than those in statics, not everyone parses, not everyone uses callouts, and not everyone uploads to FFlogs, so your “hard data” on clear rates that you seem to be basing just off of uploaded data to FFlogs is going to be off. Because not everyone reports to FFlogs.

As for V3S and V4S comparisons, they are easier than A11S and A12S were at launch, which were easier than Midas, which was easier than Gordias. Shinryu, while more challenging than Susano or Lakshmi, is not as challenging as Thordan was at release, the primal that corresponds with Shinryu. The progression new raids and Ex trials seem to have towards the easier/lighter difficulty scale can be quite a bit of a let down for those that are looking for more. Ultimate gives those people that want more the “more” they want. Sorry that you don’t like that.