SAM: anything you would add/remove for 5.0?

**wereotter** · 10-25-2017 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Dzian

And maybe reduce the Cool down on agatha a bit. Some of those low hp moves have quite lengthy cooldowns. Should be more in line with misery ends cooldown at least makes it more worth a slot on the action bar

Misery's End seems to be the odd one out in this case. Assassinate on ninja has a pretty hefty cooldown by comparison too. I wouldn't mind if all the longer ones got a reduced cooldown, but I would think it would be more balanced, and an easier adjustment, if they just increased the one short one.

Originally Posted by mosaicex

I never have any particular problem with the timing but I understand what you mean. I'm already used to anticipating raid wide aoe damage in general (to deal with using Reprisal, TBN, etc. which has longer duration but much more punishing if you missed), even thing like Gravity Manipulation or Unstable Gravity stack in 2s. Just my opinion but I think 3 seconds is pretty generous considering most raid wide aoes with cast bar usually come in 2.5 or 5 seconds increment.
That said, wouldn't hurt if they increase it to 4 or 5 seconds though, but I think they want to keep that high risk feeling like when you parry/counter from other type of games.

I'm thinking for other times you know you're going to take damage but there is no cast bar to look at, like the stack in O2s, or after the second sword in Susano EX, it becomes guesswork as to when you should pop Third Eye. Whereas other jobs with defensive cool downs get a longer time to take advantage of the mitigation effect, Samurai needs to time it perfectly to not only take less damage, but to proc that move/heal. Only fight without a cast bar I've managed to get it right every time so far is beginning of the second phase in Shinryu EX.

Taking it into comparison, Riddle of Earth has a 30 second duration to get a reduced damage and refresh greased lightning, and Shade Shift has a 20 second duration. I feel like just to make it balanced with other similar DPS actions, it should have a slightly longer duration.

**Exiled_Tonberry** · 10-25-2017 01:27 AM

As far as aesthetics and animations for skills, SAM and Monk need help.

Though Monk even more. At the very least SAM does have some nice looking elemental aftereffects, but Monk? Jeez, so boring to watch.

**Barachim** · 10-25-2017 01:46 AM

I like Samurai the way it is. The last thing I'd add is any sort of extra flashiness.

**Exiled_Tonberry** · 10-25-2017 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by Barachim

I like Samurai the way it is. The last thing I'd add is any sort of extra flashiness.

Animation wise they could use some improvements. Their movements are rather tame and very grounded, a lot like Monk. Though their effects look great.

**ULoki** · 10-25-2017 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Animation wise they could use some improvements. Their movements are rather tame and very grounded, a lot like Monk. Though their effects look great.

Take some cue from Machinist. They are cool aren't they?

**mosaicex** · 10-25-2017 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by wereotter

Taking it into comparison, Riddle of Earth has a 30 second duration to get a reduced damage and refresh greased lightning, and Shade Shift has a 20 second duration. I feel like just to make it balanced with other similar DPS actions, it should have a slightly longer duration.

Riddle of Earth is just bandaid fix for monk to keep their grease lighting for certain encounter (O4s comes to mind), it needs to be proc'd by initial hit first for the damage reduction effect to kicks in. It also reduces Monk DPS by at least 5% for the duration they decided to stay in it due to lack of Fist of Fire. Monks generally want to stay away from this skill as far as possible.
As for Shade Shift, yes it lasts 20 second BUT it only works with Physical damage (and thus useless in many cases), and comes with super long cooldown of 120 seconds.
Which is why I think Third Eye sees a lot more use than any of the skill you mentioned. Not only it has super low cd, is pure damage reduction, can be combined with Merciful Eye for free hp, but every proc is also technically a dps gain for SAM.

**wereotter** · 10-25-2017 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by mosaicex

Riddle of Earth is just bandaid fix for monk to keep their grease lighting for certain encounter (O4s comes to mind), it needs to be proc'd by initial hit first for the damage reduction effect to kicks in. It also reduces Monk DPS by at least 5% for the duration they decided to stay in it due to lack of Fist of Fire. Monks generally want to stay away from this skill as far as possible.
As for Shade Shift, yes it lasts 20 second BUT it only works with Physical damage (and thus useless in many cases), and comes with super long cooldown of 120 seconds.
Which is why I think Third Eye sees a lot more use than any of the skill you mentioned. Not only it has super low cd, is pure damage reduction, can be combined with Merciful Eye for free hp, but every proc is also technically a dps gain for SAM.

Obviously the skills aren't identical, but they're the most comparative skills on other jobs we can look at.Additionally, I would point out that Riddle of Earth does initially apply fists of earth. So while not a full on defensive cooldown like Earth's Reply, the monk does gain an overall damage reduction of 10% just by using the skill and then an additional 10% reduction upon activating earth's reply. I would take a longer cooldown on Third Eye to get a longer duration. I shouldn't be taking damage every 15 seconds in most fights to beed to use the skill that frequently.

The monk point is fair, and I've made the comment that monks should get Earth's Reply immediately upon activating Riddle of Earth, but that's another topic all together.

**gyaos** · 10-25-2017 06:28 AM

If anything, the third eye ability need some changes. There are several ways to do this. Something like making the damage mitigation work for any number of hits during activation (like 2nd phase shinryu) or increase duration like others have said.

That and a little more utility. Though we have high personal DPS, we tend to be overshadowed by NIN and DRG.

**Tanathya** · 10-25-2017 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

gameplay wise, does anyone even use hissatsu seigan in any serious content?

/thread

10 char

**ShanaShirayuki** · 10-25-2017 10:40 AM

Aggro Dump 100%. Sucks for tanks who are trying to edge out more dps.

Thread: SAM: anything you would add/remove for 5.0?

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