Core Issues With 4.x Dark Knight

[Nayrr]

Very much agree with everything you said. Couldn't say it any better myself. Sucks that it will likely take another expansion to actually get these core issues fixed considering SE's track record.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

If all class got the same damn skill, the game will be boring, so it's natural to be different. Sadly, the actual situation of Drk is not that they're different, they're in a gap that cannot be compensated, no matter how hard you try.

OK, tank need some mechanics completely different from other class tank, but at least... Make it all balanced.

Little word for Square Enix : sometimes, the simplest change can make the balance between classes back.

[Zegreiart]

If all class got the same damn skill, the game will be boring, so it's natural to be different. Sadly, the actual situation of Drk is not that they're different, they're in a gap that cannot be compensated, no matter how hard you try.

OK, tank need some mechanics completely different from other class tank, but at least... Make it all balanced.

Little word for Square Enix : sometimes, the simplest change can make the balance between classes back.

Like what? I suggested a few suggestions that are wholly different from PLD/WAR and actually work like a DRK would with the XIV spin that they use their MP instead of HP. Stronger MP restoration as well as MP over time, better manipulation of the Bloodgauge, and getting off the need for 'utility', when DRKs have never been known for that.

Their entire playstyle is all about themselves and the raw, devastating damage they can deal. Or, in XIV's case, using it to shore up their defenses. Neither PLD nor WAR does this. Unless Sole Survivor was a massive debuff on everything in combat that drained health/MP from enemies and restored it to party members with a DA effect to drastically make it stronger (from, say 1% to 3% HP & MP/server tick), you'd want so many ticks out of it for it to eventually be MP neutral to MP positive. Drop the CD to 60s. Since we're so CD starved. And when we're out, we're incredibly vulnerable. This is where burning our MP for defense would really make that shine with abilities that aren't really tank skills, but can get the job done, see Abyssal Drain. I would have liked to have seen a Bloodgauge move that worked defensively. It'd make Dark Arts more than just something you mindlessly hit for deeps.

They could even make being in/out of Grit unique in this manner since they don't have a secondary stance like WAR or PLD. Cull some useless abilities/roll them into one another like Blood Price/Blood Weapon so that you only see the one depending on your stance or lack thereof.

I'd like to see Shadowskin return in the form of some kind of Drain Spikes to compliment what Blood Price does, except for HP. Using my idea of Dark Passengers Soul Consumption, that'd make for some interesting AoE capabilities since AD is pretty weak sauce unless you're 5+ targets.

We have a strong framework of skills that just need to be pushed a little harder. The MP to offense/defense just isn't there. When we unleash (no, not the skill), we tear something a new one. Twelve help whatever it is if it's a boss. We don't have to be gods at everything. I'm fine with a minor adjustment to our AoE, but absolutely not with bosses. We need more.

Dark Mind is a good candidate for what could be changed. Magic Damage was heavy in Alexander, only to cater to the new tank job. Now it's kind of underwhelming and way too niche. You won't know that you needed it until you've experienced the fight and know that it's magical damage. It needs to do something else. Refresh/Regen effect, enhance another ability, whatever. In my perfect world of DRKs, Dark Mind would be the ultimate form of Dark Arts. You give into your Dark Mind, and fully succumb to your Darkside. 50 additional potency to all your attacks for 15 seconds. on a 120s CD. Remove the need for DA. Can only be executed after you've used Dark Passenger. If the attack would increase enmity, add a .5 multiplier to its threat generation.

Souleater combo:
Syphon Strike should have it's DA effect baseline.
Souleater should heal for for at least 2.5x's the damage dealt under DA. Souleater should be our answer for for sustain.

Power Slash combo:
Hard Slash potency should be 280 baseline.
Power Slash potency should be 320 baseline with a DA effect of massively increased enmity and a potency of 360.

Bloodspiller looks like it's 110 potency different between being in Grit and outside of it. If this is true, that looks like a 1.2% damage difference. This move should be what brings home the bread. It should also heal given the gauge cost. It needs to be more than damage. If Quietus is our MP restore for AoE, Bloodspiller should be a stronger Souleater at a heavy cost of not only our Bloodgauge but DA as well.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

I suggested a few suggestions

You're not the only one, and this is not the thread for that, make an other subject.

[Zegreiart]

You're not the only one, and this is not the thread for that, make an other subject.

Except that it has been with the discussion of the core mechanics of the job. Please, tell me what the point of this thread is to you. You've come in, complained, and offered nothing in terms of contribution. You echo the obvious. Well done.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

Except that it has been with the discussion of the core mechanics of the job. Please, tell me what the point of this thread is to you. You've come in, complained, and offered nothing in terms of contribution. You echo the obvious. Well done.

I've read for a hundred time this discussion, still don't see "suggestions" but only a package of what is wrong on the DRK. Now you know why I don't make proposition here. It's the problem of the Drk that we discuss here, not like 90% discutions with suggestions.

And you should rethink your suggestions. Cause if this is applied then DRK don't need heal anymore. So don't make suggestions if you don't calculate every single values (and here's the things, Soul eater under DA = 2,5x damage to hp. Sweet a 25k heal on soul eater critical....), this debate between us is close.

[Eyvhokan]

A bit of a nitpicky thing, but unmend costs mana. While it makes sense as it's a spell, the actual result in would be like this for a warrior: Tomahawk - ranged attack and takes 2s off your next Berserk.

As a snap suggestion, Improved Unmend should be changed to always go off and give a 480MP discount on your next Dark Arts.

EDIT: While not really core, it's just one example of all of the niggling issues that is there.

[Zegreiart]

I've read for a hundred time this discussion, still don't see "suggestions" but only a package of what is wrong on the DRK. Now you know why I don't make proposition here. It's the problem of the Drk that we discuss here, not like 90% discutions with suggestions.

And you should rethink your suggestions. Cause if this is applied then DRK don't need heal anymore. So don't make suggestions if you don't calculate every single values (and here's the things, Soul eater under DA = 2,5x damage to hp. Sweet a 25k heal on soul eater critical....), this debate between us is close.

English must not be your mother tongue. My ideas are not set in any for of mathematical stone. They're ideas. Where are links to your suggestions? I'm genuinely curious now what you'd like to see done since you must have 'calculate every single values'. And your math is wrong, because under no circumstances would a 'eater heal for 25k HP. Please, provide proof of your math and claims before criticizing mine.

Dark Arts and the combo increases Souleater's potency to 400. Let's goof around with a level 60 training dummy. My normal SE hits for 4,360 damage. That's ballparking an 11k heal for three GCDs and DA. Even on a critical hit, which is 1.5x's damage, is 16,350. If it's a direct hit and a crit, based on my understand of how direct hit works being an additional 25% damage from a normal attack, I'd assume the DH happens first, then the critical strike. If the following is true, that is a total heal of 20,438. In my current gear, I have 46,567 HP. I haven't even healed half my health under the best of circumstances baseline. To summarize, I have to not only direct hit, but crit as well to heal not even half of my health, but damn near close for those GCDs and the MP spent. I still see no problem with this.

Please stop posting in these threads. Because I just closed this debate for you. Learn math.

[Mycow8me]

I guess my main core issue with the class currently is Double Weaving and the problem is exasperated by blood weapon's functionality. I am absolutely unable to doubleweave without clipping when bloodweapon is on and have some trouble doubleweaving even when it isn't, and waiting to utilize hard slash is a DPS loss even if minor due to time that the skill could be spending on cooldown. Plunge is not double weave friendly at all either. Dark arts is a very demanding weave skill in its current state which is fine but creates a situation where it "forces" doubleweaves with some skills. Only other core issue I have with this class is self sustain.

A few other Issues that bother me but not enough to cause me extreme frustration/grief with the class:
Grit being GCD and large mp cost.
Dark passenger
Wish there was more HP siphoning attacks or skills.
MP returns from bloodprice for single target fights.

[Chrono_Rising]

I can definately seen plunge needing an animation lock reduction and distance increase, as well as an increase ot our life steal.