Command Mission Healer Bug or bad design?

[SgtAlpha]

So far I have run twice as a tank, twice as a healer, and many times as a DPS.
When I wasn't the healer, I noticed something strange. The healer is 'passable' outside of boss fights, but during boss fights the healer REFUSES to heal herself.

My healer ended up dropping to 60 HP due to the fact that she stood in a puddle of acid until I had to force her out by disengaging the final boss and trigger her to walk toward me.
Then I re-engaged. She stayed where she was and continued healing the tank and everyone else. but she remained at 60HP (with only the small default regeneration bringing her any higher) for the rest of the fight, which was a good 1 to 2 more minutes.

She is now set up with 4 defensive stance and 4 independent... I had her on Defensive But she STILL has this problem. The last run I did, she died to the end boss because she refused to heal herself even ONCE during the boss fight.

WHAT IS GOING ON?!?! WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?!? Anyone else see this garbage?!?

[Slirith]

The AI is dumb as a bag of rocks.

[Gemina]

DPS AI is pretty damn good.

Healer and tank AI needs a lot of work.

[kikix12]

All the AI needs some work. They are nothing like the very good higher level AI in job quests. As a tank, it was a regular thing for the ranged DPS to target the mob I did NOT attack, not to mention...they attacking any mobs in range whether or not I even plan on doing that.

In the Wanderers Palace, they went for the Treasure Hunters. No matter how much I tried to pull them away, drawing them to myself and using Engage on further mobs, the moment the mob I ordered them to attack was down, they went for the Treasure Hunters that were a room away instead of the mobs right next to the one they just killed. Treasure Hunters which they shouldn't even ever attack...

The game really needs more commands and better AI. I think that their AI sucks like this simply because the developers wanted a "base" that could be made better with time, all the while not being too good, to make standard runs with other players still preferred. Cause, yeah, there is really no difficulty in making an AI that would work wonders in nearly all of dungeons with just one set of general commands, then make a unique one here or there for every dungeon with a special mechanic.

[KisaiTenshi]

DPS AI is pretty damn good.

Healer and tank AI needs a lot of work.

I'll mostly agree.

I think players are trying to do the command missions like they would with experienced players. So if you normally play Tank or Healer, the party feels a little too stupid. Like if you are playing healer in these parties, it takes WAY too much time because the tank doesn't engage a target like a real player would. A real player would (if they're not a noob) grab the mobs and then have the DPS attack the mobs from the rear/side. What happens so far with the AI, is that the tank does nothing until you either tell them to, or (faster) run into the mobs yourself. In the case of Halitali and Brayflox Longstop, guess what the AI does? Stand in bad. In Stone Vigil the AI players are following Isgebind while in the air, so they always end up stepping in bad.

On the plus side the AI players aren't squishy. So they can stand in bad and last a while, but this is where the AI's dumbness comes to light. If you're playing Tank, and retreat to not step in bad, the DPS AND Healer will stand in bad.

I think the developers intentionally picked the dungeons with the "step in bad" mechanics on purpose so that otherwise solo players would have to compensate for the AI. At least the command missions aren't as punitive when you die, it just sends you back automatically instead of waiting for the AI to die slowly.

[Lilseph]

I somewhat disagree, Kisai. Both the tank and the healer AI need some work. For instance:

-Tank: The major offender is the mob backtracking. Let's say you click on "engage". The DPS (if you have ranged) will start attacking them, however the tank will move where the mob WAS, while said thing is already attacking the DPS. In places like Wanderer's, the tank would go back to attack the adventurers fightning the Wandering Tonberry.

-Healer: It seems like they don't enjoy healing themselves upon taking damage. The healing is scrambled, as it uses medica II even when the fight is over. On big pulls, they would let you die but granted... big pulls is not "playing as intended", and the healer potentially has a "gambit" that would heal you upon reaching certain threshold of your HP.

Their resistance depends on their selected tactics. If you go full offensive, both the DPS and healer will be a bit squishy. Specially when they step in the bad.

I'd believe that the DPS are working as intended because well... they just attack things. They don't interact as much as a healer or tank, as they have a different playstyle.

[Hasrat]

All the AI needs some work. They are nothing like the very good higher level AI in job quests. As a tank, it was a regular thing for the ranged DPS to target the mob I did NOT attack, not to mention...they attacking any mobs in range whether or not I even plan on doing that.

Use the Engage command. They'll have trouble even recognizing anything else exists. But obviously you need to do it every time the engaged target dies, or they fall back on their "No target, kill everything" strategy.

Healers, idk. Maybe they just forgot to code them to recognize themselves as a priority. Using the gambit analogy, they put the Self: HP<40% gambit below the enemy: attack gambit.

Disclaimer: I've only run as healer so far. So haven't experienced major problems myself. But, problems nonetheless. The tank obviously never succeeds at getting aggro on everything at the start, which makes for a sloppy grouping since they can't position very well. And dps seem to love throwing out random AoE attacks, which on top of the poor aggro, means they pull hate half the time. Until/unless we get some finer controls on each individual member, and/or use of signs/waymarks, it's going to be a bit rough.

My advice: run with an ACN. They've got Physick, and they'll use it if needed.

[Rhindas]

Use the Engage command. They'll have trouble even recognizing anything else exists. But obviously you need to do it every time the engaged target dies, or they fall back on their "No target, kill everything" strategy.

Healers, idk. Maybe they just forgot to code them to recognize themselves as a priority. Using the gambit analogy, they put the Self: HP<40% gambit below the enemy: attack gambit.

Disclaimer: I've only run as healer so far. So haven't experienced major problems myself. But, problems nonetheless. The tank obviously never succeeds at getting aggro on everything at the start, which makes for a sloppy grouping since they can't position very well. And dps seem to love throwing out random AoE attacks, which on top of the poor aggro, means they pull hate half the time. Until/unless we get some finer controls on each individual member, and/or use of signs/waymarks, it's going to be a bit rough.

My advice: run with an ACN. They've got Physick, and they'll use it if needed.

Using Engage doesn't work, the tank will simply whack the target you ordered Engage on once, and then go back to the other targets if they're not attacking the tank. This is blatant in Wanderer's Palace, and has already been mentioned above: they want those Treasure Hunters dead. You can be in the room around the beetles and they'll still run back to those treasure hunters. This will also happen on the final boss in there. You will be utterly spamming Engage to make them attack the targets attacking the party instead of going after targets NOT attacking the party. And I'm really doubting it's working as intended given that spamming Engage makes the archer go into turbo fire mode with unlimited Barrage.

Engage needs changed to "I am your commander. I ordered you to attack this. So attack this, and don't disobey me." If we die because I gave a poor Engage order with it working like that, then that's on me at that point. But currently Engage for the tank is just a suggestion. Even Arcanist pets are smarter than these fools. I "get" that they're designed to pick up enemies on the aggro list that are currently not attacking them, but when if your commanding officer gives you an order, you follow it.

And yes I've noticed the Arcanist heals more than the conjurer does. Though it's about as powerful as ours. Still, healing some is better none at all , I guess. /stare Cecily

[Hasrat]

I mean, I did edit out the WP parts on purpose. I assumed the part of the user's post that I picked out was more of a different issue of squad just getting distracted; it's something I have seen, but Engage tends to keep them on task.

WP is more of a special situation where all those examples still come up on the aggro table, so squad is coded to deal with them same as anything else. Tank still makes an effort to ensure all aggro is on them. But, anecdotal, I feel tanks are the only ones this problem hits hard. Engage will still typically keep dps on the target specified, but tank follows different rules. And, in the case of the hunters, if they're the only things left on the table, of course squad is going to read that as "mobs that are still a threat."

But, also again, I haven't run WP yet with them, so, my assumptions could be pretty far off the mark. I might also be running these differently than most; I'm ok with taking things slow, with a little patience. As such, I don't see the glaring issues as much, I think.

[Rhindas]

The DPS just focusing down one thing with Engage is an indirect problem when the tank is being its usual self and no longer tanking what the DPS are attacking because they're going to pull hate, and they're going to get hurt. So once the tank comes back from its jaunt across the dungeon to Ultimatum the offending enemy, it'll just run along to the next target not attacking it. Then compound onto that the complete unreliability of the healer and we have ourselves as vicious cycle. You don't have to pull big for this to happen. It happens in Halatali and Toto-rak too when the adds spawn, it's just less pronounced there because the mobs have so little health and the squads are very powerful. When the DPS pull hate on the boss when it decides to Everyone's Grudge and your healer just stands there like "what?" then we have a problem.

I'm okay with the having to order them to attack adds, I've been doing that for over three years now on Arcanist, but having one command for every role is not working. It seems that the battle styles only change their damage/mitigation and not their actual behavior, which is a missed opportunity. The healer is unreliable, the tank is a moron, and the DPS have to be handheld. Micromanagement is probably not the answer here, gods know the hotbar mess that'd be, but right now this is not working. They've shown us they can code the AI to respond to mechanics, before these squads even came out. We need it. Not singling anyone out with this, but having people say "Go in as tank or healer and you won't have this problem" is just telling people to circumvent poor design choices, and we really shouldn't be okay with that.

And I'd like to say we really shouldn't have to order people to not stand in death but then you do Dun Scaith and you realize that you just have to accept some people are special.