Kugane tower jump

[Tsunenori]

snip

As I said, none of my post is to exclude that they can't do it better in the future. Consistent visual design is important, and people would absolutely tear a Mario game apart at the seams if sections requiring precise platforming had a bunch of collisions you couldn't anticipate or that didn't follow a set logic, so I agree with you that what you see is what you should get.

I'm just also coming at it from the other side and saying that, regardless of what you see, you are still going to be learning the rules of the jumps and where to aim each one, so fundamentally at a base level it doesn't change anything. If you want to get it done it's all going to come down to rote repetition, so rather than fighting against the way it's designed it's better to get comfortable with those collisions since it's not like they change each time anyway.

I'm also totally not against them cleaning up the tower a bit and making some of those sections more consistent, such as the part where you have to jump around the north side of the tower to the east side, or the final jump at the top which is probably the worst offender.

You can barely see the steps as is, without the addition of six or so other avatars standing on you.

There's always a Roegadyn in a robe blocking everyone's feet. Every time.

[Spiroglyph]

There's always a Roegadyn in a robe blocking everyone's feet. Every time.

I play lalafell, so whenever I'm at it more often than not I have to stop and wait till everyone jumps or falls the hell off and I can see myself again...

[Ashbury]

I play lalafell, so whenever I'm at it more often than not I have to stop and wait till everyone jumps or falls the hell off and I can see myself again...

So I did the tower a while back as a Miqo'te. Got pretty good at it (succeed 4 times out of 10). I fantasia into a Lalafell recently and did the tower again for the Vista, it feels completely different. I had to learn all the jumps again.

And the camera really hates you being tiny.

Anyways, turning off my UI helped me a lot in both instances.

[Jas710]

As I said, none of my post is to exclude that they can't do it better in the future.

I'm just also coming at it from the other side and saying that, regardless of what you see, you are still going to be learning the rules of the jumps and where to aim each one, so fundamentally at a base level it doesn't change anything.

I understood your points. 1) The jumps can be completed. 2) You like it for the challenge. 3) They should consider going back and cleaning it up, but it's still fine to you either way.

No problem. What I was saying is basically my bird's eye view, which is: For the devs to expect players to jump primarily on invisible collisions to progress is beyond stupid and insults their players. I never thought it was possible for any game dev to think this was acceptable just because it could be completed. Until now.

[Tsunenori]

For the devs to expect players to jump primarily on invisible collisions to progress is beyond stupid and insults their players. I never thought it was possible for any game dev to think this was acceptable just because it could be completed. Until now.

I'm not sure if this is meant to come across as impassioned as I'm hearing it in my head, especially considering I was agreeing with you, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt here. I wouldn't say any of the jumps in the Kugane Tower qualify as insulting or beyond stupid though.

I wouldn't say you're primarily jumping on invisible collisions either. Counting from memory I can think of 2, maybe 3, jumps out of the 30+ jumps in the Kugane Tower puzzle that actually require that (the first of which is practice for the final jump, which is the other one that requires it). The bigger issue that players run into is bumping into the tower laterally at awkward points, all of which are easily avoidable once you find them but shouldn't be there to begin with, nor should finding them be happenstance.

However, if there are any sightseeing related jumping puzzles that I think epitomize poor design and invisible collisions it's honestly a few of the 2.0 ones like the Ixal Logging Grounds or The Bannock. I never felt like I had control over my character or the jumps themselves, and instead felt like I just lucked into making it.

Anyway, I didn't expect my post to have share the majority opinion, and in case you felt like my "as I said" was being dismissive I didn't mean for it to come off that way. We agree that it can be improved, and I hope they keep implementing more of these kinds of things and get that chance to improve them personally.